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Fantasies, Threesomes and Anxiety #451

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On the Regular version of today’s show …

A couple of emails about fantasies … from threesomes to aggressive sex almost like rape. Are these common? What do they mean?

On the Xtended version …

An email from a wife whose husband has performance anxiety during sex, making it quite difficult to connect and enjoy their sexual encounters. 

Enjoy the show!

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Corey Allan: Welcome back to another episode of Sexy Marriage Radio. Dr. Corey Allan, alongside my lovely wife, Pam.

Pam Allan: We're already halfway through January. I can't believe this. We blinked and it's almost done with the month.

Corey Allan: Yeah, but we're on the air now and the fair people of Sexy Marriage Radio Nation are spending the time with us, which we're so grateful for.

Pam Allan: Love it.

Corey Allan: Each and every week. How you take some time out of your day to dive into the world of married life and sex and love and how it could be better. How we get over the stuff that's not so good? How do we just frame conversations? That's what we try to do here at Sexy Marriage Radio is help you have a better conversation about what's going on in your married life, because we believe that how you do life is how you do sex, how you do sex is how you'll do life. Those are always interchangeable, so let's all be better-

Pam Allan: Let's do it.

Corey Allan: Is the absolute goal.

Pam Allan: Let's go.

Corey Allan: And if you like what we got going on, we ask you to jump on iTunes, rate and review the show, leave a comment, help us spread the word that married sex is a hotbed for sex. Also, we want to hear from you as the Sexy Marriage Radio Nation. You can call us at 214-702-9565. That gets your message or question or topic to the front of the line. Because several of you have emailed in, which is feedback@SexyMarriageRadio.com and sometimes you get pushed backwards because there's other things that keep coming in that help frame our conversation, and they do help. You know, this is listener driven radio, and so the nation is vital to helping each and every week where we go.

Pam Allan: Right. We want to hear what your thoughts are, what your questions are. That drives where we go.

Corey Allan: Yep, and then if you want even more access to what goes on a Sexy Marriage Radio, consider joining the academy. SMRNation.com/SMRAcademy. You can find all the information you need, get the extended content as well as interaction with some vibrant people that are involved in the Slack channels, in the conversations that take place, because it truly is a community of people helping other people.

Pam Allan: Right.

Corey Allan: That you get more access to us, more access to them, support all the way through, and then don't forget about the getaway coming in June. We hope to see you there. Today's episode is brought to you by InfiniteMoon and their Everpillow. InfiniteMoon.com is where you can learn more and if you use the code "SMR10" you can save 10% on your fully customizable pillow. For a great night's sleep, InfiniteMoon.com.

Corey Allan: Speaking of the inbox and the stuff that goes on in the interwebs of the world, this just came in to feedback@SexyMarriageRadio.com. "Thank you for the wonderful podcast you provide each week. I listened to the recent one on roleplay and as a topic that's not been covered much, I think listeners were hoping to hear what is good role play and what's okay and what's not okay in this arena. We've had some fun and dabbled in this area from time to time and I've set up some of our own boundaries to keep it a fun and safe space. One of these is it's always only fantasy. What I mean is that the roles could never be turned into reality.

Corey Allan: "For example, a hot sexy superhero who needs a good reward for all the hard work she or he has done by taking care of everyone else's need or the superhero arrives to reward their partner for something or anything. We can leave this up to the imagination, but we still, we generally steer clear of potential real life fantasies. For example, if one of the partners in the relationship is a teacher, we probably wouldn't give the good bad student and teacher scenario. It would be a miss, because there could be a potential for one of these partners to get too deep into it because it's too close to reality and we don't want to cause a little insecurity in the other partner. Interested to know your thoughts. Keep up the show, and great work."

Pam Allan: Those are some pretty valid points, right?

Corey Allan: They really are.

Pam Allan: Thinking about boundaries that you set up and, what if we're hitting a little bit too close to home on what the real story is?

Corey Allan: Yep. And this kind of information helps frame where we're heading today, but I also thought the way they frame it, I love leading off part of the episode with, here's what we do. Let's share us. Let's be a little more vulnerable first, and then ask your question. So we'll table the idea of fantasy for just a little bit, because that's where we're heading today.

Pam Allan: Okay, great.

Corey Allan: Coming up on today's regular free version of Sexy Marriage Radio, several of your questions and our answers which are all on the topic of fantasy, because last week's episode we tackled the world of anal sex at the beginning of the episode. My wife came through as my wife, as Pam.

Pam Allan: Yeah. If you want to win some money at poker, play with me because I got no poker face and-

Corey Allan: She's not wrong.

Pam Allan: You'll know where I'm coming from, so here we are.

Corey Allan: So we're going to continue the thread of that in today's conversation on the air in the whole realm of fantasy, because we've got some good emails that have come in with some specifics.

Pam Allan: Okay. Alright.

Corey Allan: Because in the past in the archives at Sexy Marriage Radio, there is quite a few on the whole general idea of fantasy, but in this case we're going to try to go into some of the specifics. Then coming up on the extended version of Sexy Marriage Radio, which is deeper, longer, plus there's no ads and you can subscribe at SMRNation.com. We've got an email that's come in from a wife whose husband really struggles with performance anxiety, and so she is talking about how frustrating it is in her marriage when that happens for both of them.

Pam Allan: Sure, sure.

Corey Allan: And so we'll do the same thing we've done where we'll read the email at the beginning and then we'll answer it in the extended, so if you're interested in joining the extended to get that part, SMRNation.com/SMRAcademy is where you can join it at whatever level you choose to hear our answer. All that's coming up on today's show. So let's jump right in to this idea of fantasy.

Pam Allan: Sounds good.

Corey Allan: Okay. Because, well, let's start it this way first I guess. When you think of the idea of fantasy, what comes to your mind? And that's not just a question for my wife, Pam, since she's on the air with me. If you're listening, what comes to mind?

Pam Allan: Well, I think of something outside of who I am, who you are on a day-to-day basis. Immediately I think of different locations, but I also think of potentially the roleplay scenario where you're trying to be someone you're not.

Corey Allan: Okay. So something that's an imaginary thing.

Pam Allan: Yeah. That's one route of it. I mean we've brought up before to me, fantasy goes back to also potentially prior experiences in our relationship.

Corey Allan: Before we get into specifics with this topic, because we've got some emails that have come in from listeners, which thank you again to the listeners. It's humbling that we are invited in to the depths that we get invited in in people's lives.

Pam Allan: Yeah.

Corey Allan: It's something we don't take lightly, but I think we need to frame this conversation at the outset with a couple of things just to level set everything. First and foremost, I want to make sure that anybody that's listening to today's episode, and in fact all of them, there's two things that must be discussed.

Corey Allan: One, we are not moral authorities for people, right? That's not what we're trying to take the stance of. We're going to talk some generalities, we're going to talk some specifics, but it comes down to each person's character, value set, integrity, and morality. And for us, that's going to be framed through a Christian lens in a relationship with God and his son, Jesus Christ, but even in that case, there's a lot of times where Christians and part of what Sexy Marriage Radio has become is a place that Christians can ask the questions that they don't know where else to ask because we'll tackle the topic, but I want to make sure from the outset everybody hears, I'm not a theologian that's trying to take a moral stance according to what scripture says you should or shouldn't do. That's an individual personal thing. There's some things absolutely that are a little more black and white in scripture, but there's a whole lot of it that's not, and so we're going to venture into that gray area today.

Corey Allan: Then the second is this is not to be a substitute for counseling. It's kind of a conversation. This is not counseling advice because we'll talk some specifics of what's some of the emails have come in. Okay?

Pam Allan: Okay.

Corey Allan: So, anything else that we need to add before we jump into the first email?

Pam Allan: No.

Corey Allan: Okay. Shaking your head's good radio.

Pam Allan: Good radio, good radio. I'm thinking, wow, you're the professional here, so I'm counting on you to have covered those bases.

Corey Allan: I plan to. Okay, so this email goes, "Hope this email finds you well," and it's a little longer, this email is. "So I'm a Christian man and I love the Lord. My wife and I have been married for just over 18 years. Much of my life however, and even throughout seasons of the first decade, pornography was a significant part of my life. I believe over the years I've acquired a much healthier understanding of godly sexuality and how that plays out in the context of marriage, particularly as it relates to desires, frequency, types of sexual acts, et cetera. I believe my expectations are realistic and in line with what God would have for our marriage.

Corey Allan: "But having said that, and after listening to Episode 385 which was sexual attraction and fantasy, I was really pressed into the fantasy that I've had of engaging a threesome in different ways and for different reasons obviously, but the idea of having a threesome with either a man or a woman is a real turn on for me that would join with my wife. I would add here that I in no way have homosexual tendencies. It's just the idea of watching my wife orally please another man while she and I are having sex or while I'm orally pleasing her that that really turns me on.

Corey Allan: "My wife has zero clue this is a fantasy of mine and we don't talk about fantasy at all. I know that to bring another individual and/or porn into the bedroom for him is morally wrong and isn't going to create the intimacy and connection that I ultimately desire, but I'm having a hard time letting go of or dealing with this fantasy of mine, and how do I do it even in a God honoring and," and I love this phrase, "A wife honoring way? I feel like a complete pervert for this desire and yet something tells me that this is a desire that many men and maybe even women experience.

Corey Allan: "While I have no intentions to act out this fantasy, I'm curious to know if you might have any ideas or thoughts for me of how I can address this fantasy with my wife. We seem as a show to support the idea that fantasy and sharing those experiences and fantasies with our spouse provided it's done in the context of marriage and only involves our spouse. In other words, do you suppose there's a way we could act out this fantasy of mine without the presence of another person? I know it seems silly that I'm even asking the question since a threesome would involve a third person," which he's not wrong if you're thinking of it in that framework.

Pam Allan: Right. Math is pretty easy there.

Corey Allan: He's not suggesting that that's what I would do, but "Does it seem strange that I might be turned on at the sight of my wife performing oral sex on a toy or a dildo while I have sex with her, or while I perform oral sex on her, or the idea of her masturbating with a dildo while she performs on me? So in our opinion, are these thoughts completely out of line or would I consider them to be unreasonable requests to ask for? Am I just crazy for even having this fantasy? Do you consider this fantasy to be abnormal or perverted? I've tried to fight it off and the many ways that pornography has influenced the negative way in which I'm trying to learn what healthy, godly sexuality looks like, and this is one particular fantasy that really bothers me and I know it's not morally okay. Perhaps this is just the lasting effect that I viewed in porn. I want to honor God and my wife and at the same time avoid negating my sexuality and desires and/or fantasies that I have. Sure would appreciate any insights you have."

Pam Allan: Corey's waiting for my response.

Corey Allan: Curious.

Pam Allan: Well, I'm curious. He's coming up with some options that is just between the two of them.

Corey Allan: Absolutely he is.

Pam Allan: Between husband and wife.

Corey Allan: Absolutely he is.

Pam Allan: And some options that I'm pretty sure a lot of our listeners have potentially used. Right? Using a toy, using some other mechanism that is available, and just the two or them are there, and what's wrong with that?

Corey Allan: Well, so, nothing-

Pam Allan: Other than that may not be something she wants.

Corey Allan: Well, fair. But he doesn't know that because he's not approached this subject with her.

Pam Allan: Well, clearly that's something to come up and I'm sure that that would be super touchy, right? To even bring that up with your spouse.

Corey Allan: Yep.

Pam Allan: That can be hard to do. That's hard to do.

Corey Allan: That's is a very vulnerable and exposed move.

Pam Allan: Talk about intimacy, right?

Corey Allan: Totally.

Pam Allan: Exposing yourself to that.

Corey Allan: The other side of that could create something that would blow the socks off of both of you, but to get to that could be rough.

Pam Allan: Yeah.

Corey Allan: You know, it could be very painful. It could be very insecurity provoking. There's a lot of different situations that can trigger in people because you get into this arena of what, I'm not enough for you? What? I can't believe that. That is perverted. You know? So while we can't necessarily answer every single nuance of question he's got in here, I don't want to go line by line with this.

Pam Allan: Yeah. There are a lot of questions.

Corey Allan: Because, is this perverted as far as a fantasy of yours? No, and yes. It puts it in the context of where you are, right? But as far as a human being, no, that is not a perverted thing because don't we have this intrigue, this curiosity, this longing, this borderline desire at times of, "I wonder what." You know, where are we just kind of go down these holes, these rabbit holes, right? So, I don't think ... Well, how you move it from is it perverted to not perverted is you start to come to grips with the fact that, you know what? This is just the weird little me. Where I steer all of this is absolutely what matters, and that's what he's pointing at all the way through this email.

Pam Allan: Yeah.

Corey Allan: Is, what do I do with this when it still stays there?

Pam Allan: Right. When it's something that doesn't line up with my moral code, but I can't get out of my head that this is something that really is a turn on for me.

Corey Allan: Right. Right. It's something that's, it's right there. It's on the surface, and he's accurate in that it is equated a lot of times to pornography because threesomes is a heavily searched porn term still to this day. At one point, I remember years ago it was one of the top three search terms-

Pam Allan: Of all searches?

Corey Allan: When it came for specific pornography searches, but so it is a prevalent desire, interest, curiosity, fantasy of people that are interested in that. I tend to think that what he's really looking for, and tell me if I'm wrong on the way but speaking as a man, what I think he's looking for is that kind of an act is a woman totally into sex. Totally into the moment, totally into her power, her aggression, her desires, her sensuality, her sexuality, her all of that. Right? She's totally lost in the throws of that, of pleasure.

Pam Allan: Okay. I hear that, and I don't disagree with that. I hear that as kind of an affirmation of the pornography side, which portrays women more as the aggressor.

Corey Allan: Totally. I think that's where it starts to get skewed.

Pam Allan: Through all of that. But, yeah, I don't disagree with that. He wants to see her enthralled in the moment.

Corey Allan: Yep, and I think that's the core of a lot of men. That I would love to see my wife totally lost in the moment with me. Totally taken up in the experience with me.

Pam Allan: Well, but you threw in the words "with me," and he's kind of going, it's not even with him.

Corey Allan: Fair, but I think I see it as, because to me when you're starting to talk about the whole world of fantasies, you're really starting to talk about, what's the point of it? What's the meaning of it? Right? For each individual person, it's going to parse itself out in different ways in that regard, so what's the meaning of this?

Pam Allan: Yeah.

Corey Allan: Why? What's the point? What's the goal? Because he's already coming up against this wall of my morality is not going to go that far, but it doesn't make the fantasy go away.

Pam Allan: True.

Corey Allan: Because what religion and Christianity has tried to do is let's squash fantasy in the name of sanctification. Let's squash desire and the name of sanctification. And you just can't do that. You can't just squash desires. So then it comes into alright, how do I steer it better? Which he's coming up with some alternatives.

Pam Allan: He is.

Corey Allan: Which aren't necessarily way off base.

Pam Allan: No.

Corey Allan: Those are creative solution possibly, and so how do you start to see the next step then becomes, what's the courage it takes to actually bring some of this up to the light of day with my wife?

Pam Allan: There's the rub.

Corey Allan: Totally. Totally.

Pam Allan: There's the rub. But that's the step that has to be taken.

Corey Allan: Well yeah, because a lot of times the fantasies that we have that are deep down in the secret depths of us, those are the ones that seem to wreak the most havoc. But when I bring it to the light, it takes away some of the power. It's vulnerable and scary possibly, but it takes away some of the power.

Pam Allan: Yeah, for a period of time.

Corey Allan: I'm curious to know what it's like by just sharing it with us.

Pam Allan: Well that's a good point.

Corey Allan: Is this something that's been shared with other people prior?

Pam Allan: Good point. You know, does he feel some load off just by-

Corey Allan: Possibly.

Pam Allan: Putting it into words and taking it out of just his head, but having it down in an email? It's got to come up with the bride.

Corey Allan: Right. Well that's the whole concept of if I'm going to start trying to be all of me enthralled in a moment with someone I wish and hope was all enthralled with me, then that's one of those things that are you really all enthralled in the moment if there's something still in there that she doesn't know?

Pam Allan: Right, and is it good with him to start off with, "Hey, what if you're just sucking on my fingers during this?" Right. Start with that. It's not a toy.

Corey Allan: Maybe.

Pam Allan: It's not a dildo or whatever.

Corey Allan: Yeah, maybe.

Pam Allan: It's actually him, but he's seeing that movement of the mouth. Throwing out another option.

Corey Allan: But I think there's also viable possibilities with the whole, I can incorporate some of the different toys and marital aids that are out there and maybe that starts to get close. Because there's still this element of fantasy serves a purpose because it not only can titillate and excite and maybe even get you going. It could push you over the edge, right? It can make it to where you can reach the goal. You can reach the hope, the climax, but there's also that element of it can disconnect you from the person you're with.

Pam Allan: True. True.

Corey Allan: And so how do you find that marriage, and it really is a marriage of those two. To where I'm steering and I'm utilizing the fantasy without it going off the rails, but I'm also making sure I'm constantly engaged as much as I can with the person I'm with because I don't think we set up scenarios and sex, especially in married sex over the long haul, where every single episode that I have with my spouse, I am always 100% enthralled and enraptured with them. Because there are some times where I'm just in the midst of it and all of a sudden, wow, my hip is really hurting, and so I'm disconnected because I'm thinking about that and I'm wondering how could I make a different move to get into a better position and hope they don't feel it because they seem like they're in such a good position. All of that kind of stuff is still a disconnect.

Pam Allan: Yeah.

Corey Allan: Because I've just gone into my own body more than I am in the connection between us.

Pam Allan: Right.

Corey Allan: And so fantasy to me is, how do we avoid extremes? How do we avoid going too far to one end or too far to the other? Because the ultimate goal is a harmony in there of the best times we've had incorporate both sprinkled in there somehow where you speak up and maybe that feels like, "Hey, I'm kind of testing this out. This is out of character. Now all of a sudden I'm now role-playing and over time that might actually become who I am. It's no longer roleplay. It's assimilated into who I am."

Corey Allan: So what it really boils down to, to me and our show I believe is, is it respectful? Is it honoring? Is a God honoring? Is it wife honoring, husband honoring, self honoring even? That are you sharing all of yourself as you're going into this arena? Because when you can answer those questions and even when you can come at it and say, "Okay, this scares me to death to bring this to light with you, but this is one of those things that's kind of just been bouncing around for a long time."

Pam Allan: Talk about some serious intimacy right there.

Corey Allan: Yeah, and who knows where that goes.

Pam Allan: Yeah.

Corey Allan: Because that all of a sudden then becomes this thing of, if I'm living a life that I'm steering towards integrity of I'm not acting this out, but I am sharing something that's scary of me.

Pam Allan: Right.

Corey Allan: Then man, I got the chance to have something even deeper and more lasting maybe.

Pam Allan: Right.

Corey Allan: Let's say thanks to our sponsor, InfiniteMoon and their Everpillow. Pam, I don't know about you. I mean, you've known me for a while.

Pam Allan: Yeah.

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Pam Allan: It is.

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Pam Allan: It's really easy to use. Yeah.

Corey Allan: It really is because at the end of the pillow it just unzips and you can take out some of the all-natural fibers and cotton, or you could put some of it back in and you adjust it to what you want, and if you sleep one night and you realize that was a little bit too soft, hey, the next day had a little bit more, and the reverse is still true. We've had them for a while and we love them.

Pam Allan: Yeah, I really love it. I like that I can position my head however I need based off of the thickness that I need.

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Corey Allan: Along the same vein, this says, "Hey Corey and Pam. I asked my wife, married for 14 years, why she closes her eyes during sex, more specifically when she gets close to orgasm. She wouldn't tell me and I really pushed her to the point that she started to break down crying and very upset, and confessed to me that she had to think back to a time when she was a teenager and she had a much older man pursue her where she worked. She never slept with him or had any real relationship with this older man, but he would kind of hang around hoping that she'd change your mind. This coworker of hers was a borderline stalker infatuated with my wife.

Corey Allan: "She explained that in her fantasy she imagines him having sex with her, or more accurately taking advantage of her, but not quite like rape. When she imagined this, it really pushes her over the edge. In real life, she said that she's repulsed, that he repulsed her and that she had no idea why this is such a turn on. She hasn't seen him, talked about him, or worked with him for 15 years, so as she's telling me this, she's crying her eyes out, guilt stricken, wondering what's wrong with her.

Corey Allan: "I tried reassuring her, told her how much I love her, which I do very much and quite honestly was very turned on by her fantasy because I really want to please her and even maybe want to roleplay in her fantasy. Look, I'm all in. She said that she doesn't want to fantasize all the time, but said it's more frequent than she would like. So then I was listening to one of our older podcasts entitled Darker Fantasies, and the email we read was almost exactly like what my wife confessed. The email from the other listener stated that the guy's wife couldn't climax unless she fantasized and she was guilt stricken about having fantasies in the first place. My wife was also never abused and we too occasionally watch porn. We use toys as well. We communicate. We have great sex together, spend time together, have two wonderful boys.

Corey Allan: "So what does this mean? Is it a power thing? Is it something else? My wife has assured me that she would not want to actually go through with this and I believe her. Is this more of a common fantasy? Thanks in advance for your advice. I love your show."

Pam Allan: Hmm. So is it more of a common fantasy?

Corey Allan: I think there is an element, because we did the episode just a couple weeks ago about chopping wood in one of the segments.

Pam Allan: Right.

Corey Allan: And I think it was in the extended content of, there's a lot of times where women want to be taken, and that's the idea of pushing right up to the line. There is some that want to have the rape fantasy or even beyond, but I think there's a lot of times where it is common for women, and I would probably venture to guess some men, to just be taken.

Pam Allan: Sure. I can see that. I guess I can't see it from the the rape standpoint. That's just me. I don't see that, but having a strong male presence there to be taken. Yeah, I totally get that.

Corey Allan: Yeah. So, there's an element of yes, this is common. Yes, in a lot of ways this is more of the taboo darker, but again, it all comes down to just like what we talked about in the first segment a little bit that, what's the meaning?

Pam Allan: Right.

Corey Allan: What do you equate to it? Because it is about power. Because if you look at a scenario, if you look at ... The one thing you could do that really is helpful with fantasies, especially repetitive ones that you keep harboring back to is, what are the themes? What are the major messages coming out of it? Because it often will start to uncover, okay, this is just the way I'm looking for someone to have more power, or that's actually a turn on. Because power is an incredible aphrodisiac for people.

Pam Allan: Right. Power, or maybe the forbidden, right?

Corey Allan: Yeah.

Pam Allan: It was something that wasn't supposed to happen in this place or with this person. Don't you think that forbidden is-

Corey Allan: Absolutely.

Pam Allan: Part of that too?

Corey Allan: The taboo. I mean, the dark has an erotic for people. Absolutely. Much like the way we ended the first segment, you guys, from what you're describing, the fact that she's bringing this to the light with you, the fact that you're opening up about this, well done.

Pam Allan: Right.

Corey Allan: Because that's where you start to unpack and unravel some of what's going on in this. Does it make it all go away? No, not necessarily, but it makes it defuse some of the power over you. Going back to the way he started this email where he asked, "Why do you close your eyes during sex? And more specifically, why do you close your eyes during orgasm?" There's actually research on this. Schnarch does research on how many people open their eyes during orgasm.

Pam Allan: And?

Corey Allan: Less than 20% actually look each other in the eye during orgasm.

Pam Allan: And what's the correlation or the result of that?

Corey Allan: Well, what do you mean by the correlation or result?

Pam Allan: Well, so is it supposed to magnify, not magnify?

Corey Allan: So, the way he ventures his work, and I love it and this idea of at the moment of culmination of the connection, we disconnect. If you go to the, I close my eyes.

Pam Allan: Because we just can't bear to have that connection? It's just too deep or too intimate?

Corey Allan: Again, it comes down to each individual person, but a lot of times it is too exposed. It's too intimate. I don't know if you're going to like how I look when I'm orgasming. I don't know. I'm too overwhelmed with it. Or, most people, and this is where he's onto based on what he picked up from his wife, they're kind of going internal to get to the point that they can reach the climax.

Pam Allan: Right, and I guess that's where I would expect it to be is-

Corey Allan: Some of the disconnect.

Pam Allan: Right. I'm just trying to make sure I stay there because I want to reach that point, and I might get distracted if my eyes are open and you have some funny look on your face or whatever that might-

Corey Allan: Right, right.

Pam Allan: Might deter me.

Corey Allan: But it's recognizing, all of this is a language that goes on and plays out, and so the fact that they as a couple are bringing this to the light of the day, having conversations about it, they're one step closer, and that's a big step towards more intimate connections together. To where now maybe you can rein it in a little better in the sense that, you know what? I'm going to disappear for a little bit to get myself going a little bit more, and maybe that's not as much of a threat. Because it is like, "Well, okay. I'll hang around." Or, now we both know what we're working towards. Of hey, stay with me. Stay engaged.

Pam Allan: Yeah. She has a lot going on though in that here she is in tears telling him what it is she's thinking of and it seems like there's some stuff to work through there, right?

Corey Allan: Absolutely. There could be, but I would sit here and say the fantasies that we have, it's not helpful at all for us to feel guilty about them because they're fantasies. Right? They're just weird little parts of us that were born out of something, and then the mind can go in all kinds of different ways.

Pam Allan: Isn't the guilt part of how you understand what the meaning is behind it though?

Corey Allan: Well, I think you start to understand what's the message of it but, because I think that's a good distinction there, Pam. Of separating out, what's the message that I feel guilty about? Now let me challenge the meaning of that message. Should I feel guilty about that? Because that's a different route. When I lump those two things together, man, they got a lot of power over me and I just react to them, but when I can tease those suckers out a little better and start to realize, okay, I see where that comes from. That's not something I want, but could I dabble in there a little bit more and not feel guilty? Maybe. Can I steer it a better way? Maybe.

Pam Allan: See, that's just a total juxtaposition there for me. If I dabble in it, it's something that makes me feel guilty, but it's okay to dabble in it?

Corey Allan: Well, dabble doesn't mean go way far into it, but hang out in it on the sense of, okay, if I'm really trying to explore what's the message, how do I do it without the judgment to figure out, what is the message? Because if the message ... I mean, we get caught up in, we pick up something growing up, evolving as life, evolving in marriage, as our sexual beings evolve. We pick up these things and we take it to the bank and we never challenge it, and a lot of the reason is because we get into this judgment of it. This right and wrong of it.

Corey Allan: So sometimes what I have to do is recognize when that stuff comes up, how do I just suspend judgment for a little bit to see if I can unpack it a little more, to see if I can see what is the real message going on in there? I mean, Pam, to put you on the spot a little bit, do you have voices in your head at times in life? Not just in sexuality, but in all of life. Do you have messages that are said to you from the little voices in your head?

Pam Allan: Probably on on a regular basis. Yes.

Corey Allan: Okay. How many of those voices, and this is not about multiple personalities or schizophrenia.

Pam Allan: No.

Corey Allan: This is just about reality of life.

Pam Allan: Right.

Corey Allan: How many of those voices are actually allies for you?

Pam Allan: Oh my gosh.

Corey Allan: That are giving you good messages, that are really cheering you on?

Pam Allan: I'd say it's the enemy most of them.

Corey Allan: Totally. Most of the people, I mean, this is one of Schnarch's statements from the last training I went to. We were exploring the world of masturbation and recognizing most of the people feel really guilty about masturbation because they're having sex with someone that's not a friend, because they really don't like themselves. The messages in their head are not life producing and edifying messages. They're really dark and evil and mean. And so that's where fantasies are, and so if I want to venture into that, and what I mean by that is dabble in it, I have to suspend judgment a little bit to take away a little bit of that power to start seeing, what is it really? That's where therapy comes into play a lot of times and coaching.

Pam Allan: Yeah, I would say, because how long do you dabble in it?

Corey Allan: Well, again, on a moral stance from what you and I believe, my actions are what really matter, and I know those of you guys that are devout in the faith are going to come at me about Jesus said if you lust after a woman, you've committed adultery in your heart. Okay, but even that is willful action towards something else. This is internal of trying to examine what are some of the things that are going on within me? How do I steer that, is ultimately what matters and I think that's how I have to start it is, suspend judgment, and then start to ask myself, what's the meanings of this? What's the point? What's the goal? And now it sounds like she's got a willing participant to venture into some of the dark to help her come out on the end in a little more light. That's a great route.

Pam Allan: Yeah.

Corey Allan: Alright, so we went a little long today.

Pam Allan: That's alright. Hopefully people got something out of it.

Corey Allan: Let's set the stage for the extended content today, and this is an email that came in that says, "Hey, Dr. Corey. I just discovered your podcast and the timing has been great. My husband and I sex life has never been good in the eight years we've been married, but now it's the worst it's ever been since we've had our third baby. A big issue for us is that my husband often experiences performance anxiety. Not all the time, but often he starts out feeling turned on but loses his erection after things heat up. This means that we need to go from initiation to intercourse really quickly and most of our foreplay is cut out, which means that it's usually painful for me and it's all over way too fast. We do pleasure each other in other ways when we can't have intercourse, but occasionally it just ends in frustration for both of us and goes nowhere.

Corey Allan: "He particularly feels pressure if I initiate, so I feel like I can't anymore. I think I have a higher drive and I have reassured him that we don't have to have intercourse to connect sexually. We rarely have sex now, so some advice about dealing with performance anxiety would be great.

Corey Allan: "Second question I would love to hear answered is how to initiate sex for both men and women. For example, what to say or do to start things off or how to turn the other person on without it being awkward. Thanks for your show."

Corey Allan: There's two things we can unpack in the extended content, so if you're not a member, hope to see you there. Well, if you hung with us all the way through, well done. This was one of our longer episodes.

Pam Allan: Yeah.

Corey Allan: Largely just because the topic deserves the time to really unpack it, to really dive deep into it. Because these are things we don't cover a lot.

Pam Allan: Right.

Corey Allan: Because in large part they're difficult to cover, because there's so many nuances and perspectives that are just unique to the situation and the people involved, and so if there's something undone or you want a little bit more, feedback@SexyMarriageRadio.com or even better, 214-702-9565 is how you can get to the front of the line. And if even us talking about something on the air isn't what you're hoping for, let me know, feedback@SexyMarriageRadio.com. We'll set up and go one-on-one with this and talk through more specifics that steer it exactly to what's going on in your situation.

Pam Allan: Yeah.

Corey Allan: Well, this has been Sexy Marriage Radio. Once again, thank you for taking some time out of your day to spend it with us. So wherever you are, whatever you've been doing, we'll see you next time.

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