Join us at the Sexy Marriage Radio Getaway in Indianapolis, June 23-25, 2022 – https://smrnation.com/getaway
On the Regular version of today’s show …
Dr Juli Slattery joins me as we talk through her decision to re-write her very first book, Finding the Hero In Your Husband.
What’s new, and what has changed in society and the Christian culture since it was originally written?
Find more of Dr Juli here – https://www.authenticintimacy.com/
On the Xtended version …
We all face disappointment in life and marriage- but what if disappointment is actually a path to more intimacy?
Enjoy the show!
Speaker 1: You are listening to the regular version of Sexy Marriage Radio, smrnation.com. You've turned on Sexy Marriage Radio, where the best sex happens in the marriage bed. Here's your host, Dr. Corey Allan.
Corey Allan: Welcome back to another episode of Sexy Marriage Radio, where alongside my wife each and every week, we want to talk about what's going on in your world.
Pam Allan: Yeah, we do.
Corey Allan: And our world and everybody's world. I don't know. This is fantastic radio with all the pauses that are starting us off.
Pam Allan: Fantastic radio, I'm like, "Do they are about our world?" I don't know, but yes.
Corey Allan: Maybe. But it is-
Pam Allan: Tell us what's going on in your world.
Corey Allan: Absolutely. And the way you can do so is let us know at 214-702-9565, or firstname.lastname@example.org. If you call in and leave a voicemail, or if you make an audio recording of your question, or topic, or comment, it gets to the front of the line because we've got an ongoing dialogue over the years we've been doing the show. And it just keeps getting better and better because more and more voices and more and more people jump in throughout each and every week. And the other thing you can do is help the SMR Nation grow by spreading the word, rate and review the show, leave a comment on iTunes, if you so desire and choose, we would love it because we want other people to recognize that Sexy Marriage Radio is offering up great information to help you apply it into your situation so that your marriage can be all it can be.
Corey Allan: And it's fascinating, Pam, I was thinking, we were talking about this right before we started. But I was thinking about on a mastermind that just started, and we got to talking about just the show and how these guys all listen, and so there's kind of a jumpstart on a relationship because they know about us. So yes, they do want to know about us because they do know about us.
Pam Allan: This is a men's mastermind.
Corey Allan: Yes.
Pam Allan: There might be some people listening for the first time, and Corey does mastermind groups.
Corey Allan: Good clarification.
Pam Allan: With husbands that just want to focus more on, well, I'll let you describe it.
Corey Allan: The whole world of husbanding, husbandry, but that's actually farming. But just being a better man. But I was fascinated because it got me thinking, one of them made a comment about how fast he listens to the audio, that he does it three times speed, which that just blew me away.
Pam Allan: Wow.
Corey Allan: And I used to do two times or one and a half. And there's a lot of people that do a variety of speeds. And so my thought is we need to do a segment where it's really slow, so that way the people that are listening on fast speed-
Pam Allan: When they do it fast, it's normal.
Corey Allan: It makes sound like it's a normal conversation.
Pam Allan: I think that's a fabulous idea.
Corey Allan: And enough of that. So I do have to mention that we're kind of laughing about the variety of speeds that you can listen to, and I still remember at a getaway years ago, we had friends, because I didn't even realize you could do this, this was eight years ago, seven years ago. They came up to me, and Tommy was telling me about, hey, here's the speed I listen to, and then one of the times, just to have fun, we lower it to half speed, and you guys both sound like you're totally not of your right mind and drunk as you're talking.
Pam Allan: Like we're sloths or something.
Corey Allan: But if you do want to have an opportunity to hear Pam and I live and experience-
Pam Allan: In realtime.
Corey Allan: In realtime, what better way than come to the Sexy Marriage Radio getaway June 23rd to the 25th in Indianapolis, Indiana this year. Registrations are open now. Now through April 15th is the early bird rate. Once April 15th gets here, that rate goes away. It goes back up to the full price, and so get your slot now while they're still available.
Pam Allan: Be a fun Valentine gift for your spouse, [inaudible 00:04:11] getaway.
Corey Allan: That is true. Valentine's Day is fast approaching.
Pam Allan: It is.
Corey Allan: So if you're looking for something to do, take your spouse on a getaway in June. Come join us. Go to smrnation.com/getaway to learn all the details. Save your spot. And we are doing it different this year, where when you register through our site at smrnation.com/getaway, as you're going through the registration process, you get a chance to check which rooms, what nights you're staying in the hotel, and we will book the rooms for you.
Pam Allan: Okay, interesting.
Corey Allan: So that's one little variation that we're taking care of it all this time. And then you'll still need to settle it up with the hotel, but we're turning in the reservations.
Pam Allan: Got you.
Corey Allan: But come join us because the getaway is totally worth the time away.
Pam Allan: So fun.
Corey Allan: Well, coming up on today's regular free version of Sexy Marriage Radio is a conversation with a friend of the show, Juli Slattery.
Pam Allan: Love Juli.
Corey Allan: Dr. Slattery joined me. I've been able to be on her show. And I still carry the label because I did check on it, of the frankest guest ever on Java with Juli because I remember when we did that show a couple years back, you were actually sitting there while we were recording.
Pam Allan: Well, and Juli's husband was there, and so the two spouses were sitting there listening to you go, it was a lot of fun.
Corey Allan: And so she's joining us today because she has a rewrite of a book that she wrote years back, and so she just revisited it and updated a bunch of information. It's basically a full rewrite of Finding the Hero in Your Husband, so it's aimed at wives on how to approach the dynamic better in marriage as a wife. And so we get into just conversations about what's changed from when it was originally written to where she is today, and where culture is.
Pam Allan: Oh, interesting.
Corey Allan: Because that was part of the impetus of this whole rewrite, and so it was a fun conversation to think of. And this has kind of been a thread through some of the different things we've done with the academy calls, last week's show, where society is shifting. And a lot of those are improving shifts, but there's also downsides to things because pendulums swing, and sometimes it can swing too far, but we've got to update things and keep up with things to make it more relevant and applicable to people, so it's the most helpful it can be. So this is what we talked about on the regular show, and then on the extended version today, which is deeper, longer, and there are no ads, you can subscribe at smrnation.com/smracademy, we go into, she's got a conversation or a thought process of how disappointment actually is a pathway into intimacy.
Pam Allan: Interesting.
Corey Allan: And so that was kind of a fun little: Where are you coming from with this, Juli? So it was a fun dialogue, so all that's coming up on today's show. So I'm pleased to welcome back to the show, and it's been a long time since we've talked to Dr. Juli Slattery, but it's nice to have Juli Slattery back on the show with me. You are a clinical psychologist, but also a pretty prolific author in comparison. I mean, I've written one book, you've got more than that. So I'm so happy to have you back on the show and let's dive into kind of where you are, what's going on, and how things are going. So welcome to the show, Juli.
Juli Slattery: Well, thank you. It's good to be back with you. I appreciate the work that you're doing. And it's always good to connect with you.
Corey Allan: Absolutely. And I mentioned this right before we started the recording that you have a podcast called Java with Juli, and so I should've got my java to have the reverse Java with Juli moment. But I wanted to get you back on here just because you went back, I don't see a lot of authors that do this necessarily, but you went back to a work you had done prior, which was Finding the Hero in Your Husband, I think that was the title.
Juli Slattery: Yep, you got it.
Corey Allan: And you revisited the whole thing. And basically, was it like a rewrite?
Juli Slattery: It was a rewrite. I didn't originally intend to rewrite the whole thing. I intended I'd do heavy editing. And as I got into it, I was like, "Man, this will be like a patchwork quilt if I don't rewrite the whole thing," because I thought so differently 20 years ago. I wrote differently. It was my first book and I was so young when I wrote it. And so I love the concept, I knew the concept was still helpful, but it really did need an overhaul, so it was a fun project.
Corey Allan: And so you already alluded to it that it was the sense of part of the rationale behind going back to revisit and then rework it was, I'm a different Juli now than I was when I originally wrote that.
Juli Slattery: Yes.
Corey Allan: So is there other reasons on why the new revisions?
Juli Slattery: Yeah, for sure. We have a different culture today than we did 20 years ago. We have a different Christian culture. I think if you look at the issue of men and women and gender, and all that is even up for debate today. But certainly, a lot of the message in Finding the Hero in Your Husband is about a woman's power. And we think about power differently today than we did back then. And women think about their callings differently. And we live in a day and age where women in general feel very empowered to get education, to pursue advanced careers, and so while the struggle is I think age old, there are elements of it that have changed, and particularly as it plays into marriage.
Juli Slattery: And then you just look at culture, what's happened over a couple decades, we didn't really have the internet back then. It was just starting. The level of brokenness represented by pornography use and all the ripple effects of that has impacted marriage relationships, and we've learned a lot. So there are good changes we're experiencing as well, some ways that it feels like, well, maybe we had things better 20 years ago.
Corey Allan: That's one of those things. Isn't it always the case that when you look at generation to generation, decade to decade, there's shifts and there's changes? And it impacts both ends. Right? There's good things and then there's bad things. It's not like this whole idea of humans, we have this hope of we will evolve society into nirvana, if you will, when you can pretty much write that thing off because as we evolve the society, we're still humans that are doing the evolving.
Juli Slattery: Yeah, yeah. And the other perspective of all change is bad is also not accurate. We can look at there are some things that are great about today that are different than they were even a decade ago, so you have to take the good with the bad.
Corey Allan: Absolutely. So let's talk real quick about the differences in how ... Because I like the stance you take in this book of it's really trying to empower a woman or a wife in their role and in their dynamic within their life and in their marriage. And so when you talk about what it was when you originally had it versus what it is now, particularly in the power realm, what was and what is on how you're viewing it now?
Juli Slattery: Yeah. So the thesis of the book really hasn't changed, that women have a ton of power, particularly within the intimate relationship of marriage. And you can just listen to a comedian talk, and they'll talk about, yes, dear, and happy life, happy wife. Or I think it's the opposite, happy wife, happy life. It's these jokes that the old movie, My Big Fat Greek Wedding, the man is the head, but the woman is the neck, and she moves the head wherever she wants. As guys, you get that. You're like, "Yeah, women have the subtle power that is so present in most marriages." Okay, so back 20 years ago, I think particularly within the Christian culture, women were struggling with, well, I don't feel powerful. I feel like I read the Bible, and the Bible's telling me not to be powerful, particularly within marriage. And I don't know what to do with that.
Juli Slattery: We saw fewer women that at that point were encouraged, for example, to get advanced degrees or to pursue their dreams. And so women then were struggling more with, wow, I just feel weak. I don't feel like I have a voice. And now that still exists today, but I think the pendulum has swung to where, particularly younger women really realize that they're powerful, and not only in the home, but they can do whatever they set their minds to. Most couples that are getting married, the women feel maybe more empowered than the men. I think we're in a day and age where masculinity is more confusing, and men tend to be more passive. And so now we've got the dynamic of women really struggling with, man, I'm a better leader than my husband, I have more education than he does. I have a higher paying job. I read the Bible or go to church and it's telling me that I'm supposed to have this submissive role. That does not connect at all.
Corey Allan: Right.
Juli Slattery: What do I do with that? And so again, the core principle is the same, but how it's playing out is just a little bit different.
Corey Allan: Okay, because yeah, so there's several buzzwords in this thing now that have changed that you're describing. Right? From what culture was to what it is now, because even the whole concept of power, man, that's got all kinds of nuance to that word, whereas before, it was a little more straightforward in some regards, good or bad. Right?
Juli Slattery: Yeah, I think that term, power, is an emotionally loaded term today. And that was the case I think even after I finished the last edits for this book. Everything kind of is continuing to evolve, so but if we look at it, you've got to say, "All right, there is power within intimate relationship." The man has power, the woman has power. And really, the level of intimacy is determined on how they're using that power. Are they using it to create a safe environment or to sabotage safety emotionally?
Corey Allan: Okay. And so is that one of those things that you think is an unconscious thing that someone might do, where they're sabotaging the dynamic? Or do you think it's more of a conscious, they think it's the right route, but it winds up not being?
Juli Slattery: Yeah. I think at some level, it's maybe on the line of conscious versus unconscious. And what I mean by that is typically, we use our power to sabotage intimacy based on fear. And so most of the time, we're not aware of being afraid. So let me give you an example of this. Your average woman says, "I want my husband to step forward more. I want him to step into making decisions and be more involved with the kids, and maybe be a spiritual leader." So he begins to do that, he begins to interact with the kids. Maybe he says, "I've decided, let's pray every night before we go to bed." Well, something about the way he's leading triggers her, and she's like, "Well, no, that's not what I had in mind. I get sleepy at night, so I would rather pray in the morning," or the way you pick up the baby, you're not supporting his head. Or you don't understand, Jake has a lot of sensitivity around that, don't be so harsh with him.
Juli Slattery: So she's asking him to step in, he steps in, and now her fear is heightened because he's doing it wrong from her perspective. So what does she begin to do? She begins to criticize. She begins to say, "Well, I'll just take over. Maybe I don't want him so involved." She's not aware of being afraid, but she is aware of I think if this is going to be done right, I've got to do it. And that's why I say it's right on.
Corey Allan: I get you.
Juli Slattery: Yeah. And when I describe these, women are like, "Yes, that's totally me."
Corey Allan: I get you.
Juli Slattery: And I am afraid. I'm afraid he's going to mess our kids up. I'm afraid he's going to mess our finances up. And so you end up using your power in marriage to take over instead of invite your spouses strength.
Corey Allan: Right, which then is that self defeating loop of, I continually then have the ammo if I'm ... I use the framework of the worst in us and the best in us, that if I'm operating from the worst in us, I have ammo of, well, he still won't lead. He still won't, not recognizing the best in me, if it stood up, would say, "Well, he doesn't lead like I do, and I realize that's the tension." So he has demonstrated he's willing, but not in the manner I want to because a lot of times, I think what we do as people, and I think this is not necessarily a male, female difference, I think this is a human dynamic difference of here's what I want in my life with you. And now let me tell you exactly how to do it, rather than, I don't always get that part of the equation.
Juli Slattery: Yeah. And I think women are worse at this than men, Corey. I just have to say.
Corey Allan: I'm glad you said that. I'm not going to be the one that says it.
Juli Slattery: I call it the wife's great dilemma. I want you to lead, but I want you to lead the way I tell you to lead. And so many men feel that way, like she's telling me to step up, I do it, and then she doesn't like the way I'm doing it. And then what happens is then that is going to trigger his fear because guys in general fear failure. And they want to be seen as competent, and so when the wife is directing them all the time, criticizing them, then it's like, "Well, why did I even try? I'm safer just being passive." And so I think a lot of couples are in that dance, and they're both frustrated.
Corey Allan: Right, so you're almost describing to a T, this reactionary dance that goes on. Right?
Juli Slattery: Yeah.
Corey Allan: I say or make a move towards what it is I want, and then my partner reacts to it. And then I react to that, and off we go, typically back to whatever the normal was beforehand.
Juli Slattery: Right.
Corey Allan: Because that's the dynamic of systems, isn't it? We go back to what we know because to move and change some of those things takes a lot of effort.
Juli Slattery: Well, first you have to change momentum, so you're either digging further in a hole of we're both reacting to our fear, or you're changing the momentum to say, "You know what, I want something different here. We're not getting to intimacy. And I'm willing to look at the fears that I have and willing to work through them, so that we can actually start meeting each other's needs instead of creating this atmosphere where we're both just reactive."
Corey Allan: Okay. Yeah, so then you're talking a little more like self confronting in a lot of ways.
Juli Slattery: Yeah.
Corey Allan: Okay. This is just about: What's my role in this? How do I really get a handle on what is this fear? What is the underlying thing? And then start to deal with that a little better myself and in the relationship.
Juli Slattery: Right, and really understanding that you have power and you're using it some way. And if you're not conscious of it, you're going to be using it in a way that isn't promoting intimacy. It requires a conscious choice to say, "Hey, I've got power in this relationship. I can either make my husband feel vulnerable, or I can invite him into intimacy. And I choose to start using my power in a way that really invites my husband to feel safe."
Corey Allan: Okay, okay. And so then I know at another part here in the book, you get into this idea of: How do you start using boundaries as a component of this? Because this is where we're talking about like society has done, we can react in one way and we go too far, and then we react in another way and we go too far. And so there is the element of, if I'm using my power in a dynamic, I can't go too far to where all of a sudden, I'm just going to do all the inviting and just kind of go parallel alongside, or I'm going to submit and allow myself to be treated poorly. So there's this fine line in there where we have to find harmony, I guess you could say.
Juli Slattery: You're right, yeah. So that balance comes in understanding that women have power in two balancing type of areas. So you go with me on this and tell me your perspective from a man. But first of all, the power that we've kind of been alluding to is a man's vulnerability to feeling like a failure. And so his wife's attitude towards him, her words towards him, is either going to make him feel like she believes in me, or she's always questioning me.
Juli Slattery: And so the first area of power that I want women to understand is you can speak life or death into your husband. And we've seen that happen. You've probably been in social circles where a woman will just say something so cutting in front of people about her husband, and everybody just sort of cringes because you know that cut to the core of his masculinity, his confidence. And so that first area of power is choosing that I want to speak life into my husband. I want to believe in him. But what we also have to understand is there's a second area of power that also is essential. When we look at Genesis, we see that God said that man was not good alone, and so he created women as this completion, bringing another perspective of life to him. And this is most intimately fulfilled in marriage.
Juli Slattery: And so a woman also has power in that God created her as this strong helper, is the Hebrew word, it's the strength that brings to him. And so she has power in this area of help. And when women get this out of balance, and when the church gets this out of balance, first of all, they only will talk about that need. Oh, he needs to be respected. Don't criticize your husband, without emphasizing, no, she's also the helper. And so she needs to be bringing all of her strength to this relationship. And that would include accountability and boundaries. A husband and wife are also brothers and sisters in Christ. And so she's going to be speaking not only words of life, but also those faithful wounds that come from a friend, and drawing boundaries when necessary.
Juli Slattery: And again, I think this is where the church has really missed this. Now you can also be out of balance if you're all help and all, hey, let me bring my strength, I'm your personal holy spirit, and no encouragement. And so the artistry of being a wife is really understanding: How do I find that balance and how I'm using my power?
Corey Allan: Okay. I like it because I think I would resonate completely with it on just I think it's a synergy that's being created here because this is where I've come across with SMR over the last decade, I've come across this idea that the Jerry McGuire, you complete me, and we can even do that in the religious context of the two shall become one, means I no longer exist as a single entity or an individual. I am now just the spouse of X. This happens secondarily as in, I am Will's father and Sydney's father. And that's how I'm known in some circles, rather than I'm more than that, also by the way.
Corey Allan: So there's this element of each part playing their role, but also recognizing their roles are different because we're not androgynous. We're not the same beings, male, female. And even among male, male, and female, female, I think there's uniqueness and trends and nuance in there that can add synergy, and at the same time, and this is where I think you're describing boundaries, it's going to add conflict because you'll see things differently than a man would, and that's okay. Neither one are necessarily right or wrong, they're just different.
Juli Slattery: Yeah. I have a whole chapter in the book on conflict, and actually helping people understand conflict is good. It's fighting that's bad. And really helping us see the difference between conflict and fighting, that couples that bury conflict really aren't going to be thriving, that you're meant to be different and you're meant to bring those two different perspectives to the table and learn how to honor each other in those. And I know you're familiar with Dr. John Gottman's work. But one of the things that he found is that I think it's 69% of conflict in marriage will never be resolved.
Corey Allan: Yep.
Juli Slattery: And so the goal of conflict is not to resolve it, it's to use it to create a deeper intimacy and connection. But like you said, there's this tension between oneness and distinctiveness that married couples are always working through.
Corey Allan: Absolutely. And I think I framed that as, that's marriage's growth wheel. That's the dynamic that's at play of it's intended to help us all mature, grow in character and wisdom, and even strength.
Juli Slattery: Yes. Amen.
Corey Allan: Well, Juli, thank you so much thus far for this part of the conversation. I want to pivot here in just a little bit for the extended content on, you alluded to, this is just a tease for everybody that's listening to the regular version, you alluded to the idea of how disappointment is actually a pathway into intimacy, and so is conflict. So that's where we're going to go in just a minute, but before we get there, I'd love for you to tell members of the SMR Nation how they can find more about you and promote anything that will be helpful to the audience that's listening today.
Juli Slattery: Yeah, absolutely. You can find what we're doing at the website authenticintimacy.com. And there, you'll see a link to the Java with Juli podcast, and books and online studies and other resources.
Corey Allan: Perfect. Well, thank you so much, Julie, for the work you're doing. And I'm looking forward to the next conversation here in just a second.
Juli Slattery: Me too.
Corey Allan: I love it when people have a willingness to reexamine what they've done, what they've written, and realize, you know what, I could do better. I can. I can update this. There's no reason not to. And particularly with Juli and the way she's describing the rewrite of this book is because she started the process of, I'm just going to update some of this stuff, and then realized this is kind of like a full rewrite.
Pam Allan: Yeah, yeah.
Corey Allan: So if you're out there just hearing this and have read the book in the past, it might be worth revisiting again because it has been redone and updated.
Pam Allan: Yeah, I love, for her I had to have the opportunity to go back and do that, and see where she's come is nice.
Corey Allan: And that takes courage because: How often do we have things that we've done in our life where we've kind of made a stand, or made a statement, or a belief, and we've put it out there, and I don't know if I want to revisit it? Even though I might've personally changed my mind, I don't know if I want to go back and broadcast. You know what, hold on, let me tweak this. Let me change this. Let me change this. Let me adjust this. Because I think don't we often dig our heels in on things.
Pam Allan: Right. She's looking at it from, hey, I've got a better opportunity to help other people, so let's make this happen. Let's make it more applicable to today, so love that.
Corey Allan: And that's what we want to have happen with Sexy Marriage Radio. So if we've left something undone or missed something as you see it, please let us know, 214-702-9565. We want the dialogue with you because last week's episode, we've got some feedback on there that we will follow up with on the world of trauma and particularly the idea of it's not my body, or it's my body, and that's the whole what do you do with one flesh mindset. So that's what's coming up, little teaser, we've never done that before, actually. So tune in next time. This has been Sexy Marriage Radio. Let us know what you think, 214-702-9565, or feedback at sexymarriageradio.com. See you next time.
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