Top iTunes Marriage Podcast

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hosted by Dr. Corey Allan

Healthy Hedonism #462

On the Regular version of today’s show …

A conversation with Dr Nan Wise about her work in the field of sex and sexuality – specifically about the importance of pleasure in life.

You can find more about Dr. Nan on her site http://askdoctornan.com/

On the Xtended version …

Dr Nan and I talk about her research and the science of orgasms.

Enjoy the show!

Sponsors …

MELT: Couples Massage Courses: Take advantage of a special offer, 20%-40% off the MELT video course until April 20th. Click here.

Mentions …

Join us for a virtual hangout on Monday evening, April 13th at 7 pm Central Time. Register for free here – https://smrnation.com/hangout

Find Shannon Ethridge’s new podcast here – Sexual Confidence On Tap 

Got a question?

CALL US 214-702-9565
or email us at feedback@sexymarriageradio.com

Get Xtended episodes in the Academy

Get help for your relationship and sex life from the comfort of your own home. This is an opportunity for YOU to fully experience the fact that “The BEST SEX can happen IN the Marriage Bed!” ...

Corey Allan:
Welcome back to another episode of Sexy Marriage Radio. Alongside my wife Pam as always, each and every week.

Pam Allan:
Yeah, good to be here.

Corey Allan:
Trying to talk about what's going on in the middle of quarantine world as that's what's going on right now.

Pam Allan:
Right, or shelter in place.

Corey Allan:
For a majority of the globe it seems but even though it's a new normal on what's being established right now with how we're trying to operate, we're still trying to speak into what will help you.

Pam Allan:
Yeah, glad you guys are here and taking the time.

Corey Allan:
Absolutely. And so, if you've got something on your mind that you want us to cover or a question that you don't know where else to ask or you just need a ray of hope and sunshine, call us at (214) 702-9565 leave us a voicemail that can be added to the queue at the front of the line or you can also send us email, which we love getting emails to feedbackissexymarriageradio.com with whatever's going on that can help you in your relationship and in your part of the world. We also ask for you as the SMR nation to jump on iTunes or Spotify or iHeartRadio or however you choose to listen, rate and review, leave a comment, help spread the word that Sexy Marriage Radio's got it going on because even though we're in some uncertain times, marriage is there. It could be a tremendous source of joy and hope and support ...

Pam Allan:
Support for each other.

Corey Allan:
... as you go through it.

Pam Allan:
The nation's good support for one another.

Corey Allan:
And there's a couple of really cool things going on Pam before we jump into what's coming up in the episode.

Pam Allan:
Yeah.

Corey Allan:
One is when we are now in this whole world of shelter in place, our friend Dennis Mercus, Mr. Masseuse himself has created some specials going on because what he has found, and this is like a well duh, kind of a thing. When we're stuck at home, a good, appropriate, healthy touch is all the more important when were in the midst of uncertain times.

Pam Allan:
Absolutely.

Corey Allan:
And so, a lot of people that have joined his melt masterclass already have been logging on. He's been talking about an uptick of people back on the videos and learning the techniques in dealing and addressing what can help with touch. But there's also a whole other component to add of the importance of massaging your children.

Pam Allan:
Oh gosh, yeah.

Corey Allan:
Because think of kids, especially our age kids with teenagers, I mean they've never experienced anything like this.

Pam Allan:
Yeah.

Corey Allan:
This is a whole new thing.

Pam Allan:
It's a soothing, comforting thing.

Corey Allan:
And so, this can be a source of tremendous benefit and blessing. And so, he's offering a special. It's from 20 to 40% off right now for the next two weeks, right around April 20th. It's 20% off his melt masterclass or you can do 40% off the melt masterclass that also includes some oils.

Pam Allan:
Nice.

Corey Allan:
And so, to find more information and take advantage of this special offer that he's offering just the SMR listeners, you're going to go to smrnation.com/melt, M-E-L-T.

Pam Allan:
Okay.

Corey Allan:
And take advantage of this because Dennis knows what he's doing and it's great, easy to learn, privacy of your own home, helpful that you can use not only just in your marriage but for your family.

Pam Allan:
Right.

Corey Allan:
So take advantage of that offer.

Pam Allan:
That's a deal.

Corey Allan:
The other thing we want to give as an offer and a shout out to the SMR nation because you take out some of your time each and every week to hang with us, metaphorically speaking, by listening to the show each and every week. And we thank you for that since we are in a lot of ways isolated ...

Pam Allan:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Corey Allan:
... with what's going on Pam and I are going to set up next Monday night, which is at the airing of this if you're listening right after the air date, it's April 13th ...

Pam Allan:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Corey Allan:
... that Monday night at 7:00PM central, we are going to host a virtual hangout for anyone in the SMR nation that wants to jump on a Zoom call with us just to chat. Just to hang out, talk a little bit just to see who you are, where you're from, what's going on, just to talk about what's going on in your world.

Pam Allan:
Yeah, absolutely. What's going on in your part of the country or your corner of the world, anywhere, yeah.

Corey Allan:
And the nature of these kinds of calls space is going to be limited because this isn't a lecture, this is just a hanging out.

Pam Allan:
Okay.

Corey Allan:
And so, if you want to come join and hang out with us, you're going to want to go to smrnation.com/hangout, all one word and it's where you can register for free. That way I can get you the link of how we're going to be meeting. So smrnation.com/hangout for a free time of just relaxing with us.

Pam Allan:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Corey Allan:
And you can come as a couple, you can come by yourself, your kids can join. It's whatever. As a nation we want to just hang out, talk to each other, lift each other up, crack some jokes, talk about what's going on and just be.

Pam Allan:
I'm looking forward to it.

Corey Allan:
I am too, I think this could be fun and we'll do this off and on depending on how long this whole thing goes with what's going on here in the States. And I realize if you're not in the States and you're on the other side of the world, we might be asking you to get up in the middle of the night or first thing in your morning, come join us. We'd love to see you, so smrnation.com/hangout and then lastly, I have had the honor two weeks ago I was on the air with a fellow podcaster that is very familiar with this audience because Shannon Etheridge has her own show again and she is back on the airwaves in the podcast world and so, she is now doing a podcast on a weekly basis. It's called Shannon Etheridge and Friends ...

Pam Allan:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Corey Allan:
... and so, I was honored to be on one of the episodes where we talk about just the role men can play in helping with marriage and life and sex, particularly desire and interest from their wife, but if you're interested, Google Shannon Etheridge and Friends or go to the show notes of today's episode where all the links we're talking about at the beginning of this will be listed. But shout out to her and Shannon, welcome back to the air.

Pam Allan:
Yeah, excited that you're out there again.

Corey Allan:
So coming up on today's regular free version of Sexy Marriage Radio, I'm joined by Dr. Nan Wise. She has quite the alphabet soup behind her name. She's a neuroscientist as well as a PhD clinical therapist, sex therapist as well as educator coach, there's a lot of things that she's doing. For decades, she's been researching the sexual dynamic in the arena and she's become a scientist in the whole realm of sexual desire and orgasm.

Pam Allan:
Interesting.

Corey Allan:
And so, on the regular version of the show today, we talk about one of the phrases I love from her is positive hedonism.

Pam Allan:
Positive?

Corey Allan:
Which I like to think of it also in the terms of healthy hedonism.

Pam Allan:
Okay, all right. We got to hear this one.

Corey Allan:
So it's just the importance of pleasure that we have in our life and pleasure's gotten a bad rap in a lot of ways ...

Pam Allan:
Sure it has.

Corey Allan:
... especially in America in the way there's a little bit of a dichotomy.

Pam Allan:
I'm selfish if I'm trying to find some pleasure for myself.

Corey Allan:
Exactly.

Pam Allan:
Yeah.

Corey Allan:
And so, in the regular version of the show, we're talking about healthy hedonism, which is going to be worth hearing.

Pam Allan:
This'll be a good segment.

Corey Allan:
And then on the extended version of Sexy Marriage Radio, which is deeper longer and there's no ads, you can go and subscribe smrnation.com. I can't help but be a little giddy about this because this is geeking out about research. And so, she is a scientist that studies the neuro pathways and the biological pathways of orgasm. And so, we're talking about the science of orgasm ...

Pam Allan:
Science of orgasm.

Corey Allan:
... in the extended content today.

Pam Allan:
Okay. There's got to be some good meat in there.

Corey Allan:
It's a lot of fun because she actually has tested people, men and women both during the orgasm with FMRI machines ...

Pam Allan:
Okay.

Corey Allan:
... to see what's going on in the brain and to map the biology from brain to genital.

Pam Allan:
Mapping the nerves and ...

Corey Allan:
All of it.

Pam Allan:
... what's lighting up.

Corey Allan:
They're the only ones that have done it through this technique and it's fascinating to hear. So all that's coming up on today's show. Joining me today for today's episode of Sexy Marriage Radio is Dr. Nan Wise. She has quite a alphabet soup behind her name because you do a lot Dr. Nan. A licensed psychotherapist, cognitive neuroscientist, a sex therapist, hypnotherapist, relationship specialist, lots of decades of years of experience. In other words, you do a lot with people and I'm excited to have you on board for today's show because you also have a book out called Why Good Sex Matters: Understanding the Neuroscience of Pleasure for a Smarter, Happier and More Purpose Filled Life. And I want to start there because Dr. Nan, one of the phrases that's jumped out to me when I was looking through your work and your book is the whole idea of rediscovering pleasure and positive hedonism and those two words together, we got to start with that of just positive hedonism. Tell me about that.

Nan Wise:
Yeah, the thing that we don't realize is how important this healthy hedonism is for our emotional functioning and nature wired us so that things that feel good and are good for us get us to approach and things that feel bad and are bad for us, get us to withdraw or avoid. So in order for the emotional systems that are wired into all animals, that psychology completely ignores, which is a whole other conversation, which is really the point of the book is understanding how we're wired so we can work with it better. That we are in a country where we have a very strange kind of love, hate relationship with sex and pleasure, we're a little puritanical ...

Corey Allan:
Yes.

Nan Wise:
... and as a result we're ambivalent and we actually are more obsessed and run by the not so healthy pleasures that kind of capture our attention that aren't satisfying.

Corey Allan:
Right.

Nan Wise:
A very simple way to put it is like eating a very delicious meal that's good for you is going to be satisfying and think about it, if you cook it, you prepare it, you eat it, you clean it up how satisfying that is versus sitting down and eating a bag of Doritos. They taste good and they have nice flavor engineers ...

Corey Allan:
Yes they do.

Nan Wise:
... that design it to keep us eating and it actually is not good for us.

Corey Allan:
And you're talking to a guy that enjoys a good tortilla chip.

Nan Wise:
Well, yeah, it's important to enjoy it, but that's not going to run our engines and if we're living on Doritos instead of healthy balanced food, if we're chasing the buzz of the internet and the social media rather than having satisfying face to face connection with people that care about us and we care about them. When I went on the Today Show, right before the coronavirus, I was interviewed by Maria Shriver.

Corey Allan:
Right.

Nan Wise:
They had done this sort of health and America of women thing and they found that 46% of women were not sexually satisfied and they were also scared to tell their partners.

Corey Allan:
Really?

Nan Wise:
Yeah, so it's like we're afraid to really be honest, we're afraid to talk openly and in a healthy way about sexuality. And so, a lot of this kind of downregulation of our sex lives, which is the sex recession ...

Corey Allan:
Right.

Nan Wise:
... where 23% of people in 2018 didn't have any sex.

Corey Allan:
Basically what I'm hearing you talk about is we've replaced some of the things that really can mean good, pleasurable things with the quicker fixes almost.

Nan Wise:
So we're chasing the craving and we're not getting the satisfaction ...

Corey Allan:
Okay.

Nan Wise:
... because those are actually two separate systems ...

Corey Allan:
Okay.

Nan Wise:
... in the brain body ...

Corey Allan:
Okay.

Nan Wise:
... and run by completely different neurotransmitters, peptides.

Corey Allan:
Right.

Nan Wise:
So we're chasing the dopamine hits. It's craving, wanting, it's the next thing, the next thing, the next beat, the next where are we going to get our attention grabbed.

Corey Allan:
Right.

Nan Wise:
But what's really satisfying is the care system, which is wired in with our opioids. I have my dog sitting here with me.

Corey Allan:
Okay.

Nan Wise:
And she and I are having a lovely care system party.

Corey Allan:
Absolutely.

Nan Wise:
A connection that we have with our pets trains our nervous systems and it causes the release of these satisfying, soothing natural opioids that we produce in our body.

Corey Allan:
Okay. And so I love the analogy of talking about just the equation of the meals and how you could do something really quick or you can make it an event and it means something different, it's experienced different, it's felt different.

Nan Wise:
And it's way more satisfying because if you're preparing your food and then you're serving it and you're savoring it and even cleaning up after it, it's like this kind of activity. Activity is good because the seeking system which runs on dopamine gets us to organize, plan, execute ...

Corey Allan:
Right.

Nan Wise:
... so it's all working together.

Corey Allan:
Okay. And so, when it comes to then our puritanical view of sex and the way our society has and definitely churches in the sense that religion has not done a really good job in my opinion, on talking about this in a good way. And so, the non-talking about it sends a negative message a lot of times too. How do you get this kind of a framework and apply it to that aspect of our pleasurable life?

Nan Wise:
Well that's a great question. So I think pleasures get a bad rap and I think we need to be a little less judgmental about pleasure and really start to look at the kinds of pleasures that give us good feelings that are good for us.

Corey Allan:
Okay.

Nan Wise:
So I've been telling people with what's going on with the coronavirus, one of the big things that we can do that we don't do usually is go outside and be in natural sunlight and natural sunlight goes right into the back of the eye to the hypothalamus and then it runs moods, it runs everything in the body from eating to digestion to sleep, weight, everything. Hormone, sex drive, if we're outside walking in the sunshine that's healthy hedonism. And it's the kind of stuff that not only feels good, it's good for us and it's going to probably if we develop these healthy hedonism habits, we have an opportunity now in lockdown because we can't do the same things that we do all the time.

Corey Allan:
Some of the external pressures of the time and the schedule and the rush and the what's the next thing and the next meeting I got to get to in the next event, whatever, all that's gone for right now.

Nan Wise:
Right. We're interrupting our habits because we just can't do the same thing. And one of the things I write about in the book and what I really try to help people understand is that the way that the brain mind is equipped is to make things into habits so that we don't have to fully think through everything. That's the good part of habits but the bad part is we do things over and over again that don't create good results and we have a lot of emotional learning in that part of the brain too ...

Corey Allan:
Right.

Nan Wise:
... that's hard to shake.

Corey Allan:
Okay. And so, when you're up against this, because it's years of pattern that we've got into and it's years of quick fixes. That's quite a combination that we're up against. Are there some best practices, best tools you've come across in the years you've done this research and work on where you start? Because to me I'm already going to start using the phrase personally of I'm going to go be a good hedonist for a little bit just to start trying to change the way I interact with it and then those around me interact with it because I love a little bit of those shock value statements that kind of disrupt and make people go, hold on because to me that's changing the pattern some.

Nan Wise:
Yes, yes. So when you say something like that, you're causing people to stop and to think, well what does that mean? Like good hedonism, healthy hedonism, it creates us to start to use the really souped up top of our brains, the evolutionarily newer ...

Corey Allan:
Right.

Nan Wise:
... prefrontal cortex to get curious about something and then we can do some things differently. So to go back to your original question, how do we start with this there's usually some kind of mindfulness practice that gets us off of having what I think is a big part of the problem, the continuous partial attention that's making us miserable.

Corey Allan:
Okay.

Nan Wise:
And this is a phenomenon that's actually been studied and demonstrated over the past years. And the APA did a survey in 2018 about how many people say that the use of their devices are creating a lot of stress and anxiety. And what we mean by that is the continuous partial attention is when your phone is right there and you are kind of always a little bit on low level alarm waiting for the ping or the ...

Corey Allan:
The next something to come in.

Nan Wise:
The next something and what that does is it hijacks the seeking dopamine system.

Corey Allan:
Okay.

Nan Wise:
And that can flatten it. Dopamine is actually a signal for learning. So dopamine rather than being the reward neurotransmitter that everybody thinks it is is the reward system, it's really more about reinforce and getting our attention ...

Corey Allan:
Okay.

Nan Wise:
... so that we learn.

Corey Allan:
Okay.

Nan Wise:
So a signal that keeps getting our attention but it's not really giving us good information has got us constantly on alert and that's draining.

Corey Allan:
Oh, absolutely.

Nan Wise:
That's where the cortisol is flowing, we're never really unplugging. So the first thing we need to do, meditation is all about ... even prayer is a one focus kind of thing. When I studied with Herbert Vince at the Mind Body Institute in the 90s up at Harvard he used to say that things like prayer, meditation, yoga, anything that you can do that puts you more into one focus rather than divided attention. So for the listener, I would say any way that you can unplug for periods of time during your day from your devices, turn them off because they show even having them on in the room interferes with concentration and actually makes people do more poorly on tasks just having them open.

Corey Allan:
Right.

Nan Wise:
So that and I will say this is a personal journey for me because I write about in my book how I started with panic attacks in my early 20s ...

Corey Allan:
Right.

Nan Wise:
So I always was trying to learn how to manage my own nervous system. So that's what led me to things like yoga, meditation, breath work, and I've trained a lot of people and I write extensively in the book how one of the most important factors is being able to connect with the breath and the body.

Corey Allan:
Right.

Nan Wise:
We have a body.

Corey Allan:
Yes we do.

Nan Wise:
And people forget they have a body, they're like a head on a stick and they're not attuned to the sensations in the body ...

Corey Allan:
Right.

Nan Wise:
... to be able to be good consumers of whatever the body is telling them.

Corey Allan:
Okay.

Nan Wise:
And that's how we get emotionally hijacked.

Corey Allan:
Okay.

Nan Wise:
When the emotions in the body, like the rage system gets triggered and we're not paying attention to the signs of it kind of leading up to the full boat core emotional storm and then we're crazy.

Corey Allan:
Right, because otherwise you're just kind of operating. I mean, because I think about it in a lot of ways of life we go through it pretty robotically at times.

Nan Wise:
So noticing what's happening in the body. So for me, I call it operational intelligence. When you know about the seven core systems in the basement of the brain that are wired and it's hardware, it's wired and comes with the equipment ...

Corey Allan:
Right.

Nan Wise:
... and then we have all sorts of learning and habits and the cool thing about it, well I don't know how cool it is but negative experience looms large. It only takes one bad experience to traumatize us.

Corey Allan:
Right.

Nan Wise:
One really good experience doesn't protect us or make us immune, does it?

Corey Allan:
Right, right.

Nan Wise:
So the fear learning, so we have the fear system. The fear of learning is very powerful in classical conditioning. Like we've learned to associate good and bad things in a very powerful way, so by understanding the embodied emotions and working with them and learning how to work with the breath to be able to down regulate that really activation kind of system than we can operate better.

Corey Allan:
Yeah. And so, tell me if this is also in line with what you're describing, because it seems like it is. I just finished a couple of weeks back a book called The Ruthless Elimination of Hurry.

Nan Wise:
Hm, I saw that. I didn't read it, it looks great.

Corey Allan:
It's a great, great idea. And the premise of it is if you're trying to be an apprentice of Christ that you have to do more than just follow his teachings you have to adopt his lifestyle, which he didn't hurry in thinking through some of the different practical things that he gives at the end of the book I've adopted some of them. The first one being on my phone, I got rid of all of the notification apps that ping and ding and all that as far as social media, so it helps with that. But the big one to me is I changed the entire layout from color to gray scale.

Corey Allan:
And so, I don't have a color smartphone anymore it's all gray scale, black and white, which makes it to where I don't want to be on it as long because it just changes the event and the experience of it. And his premise is based on some research he came across was it's the dopamine hit of the color and the depth and the vividness of it even that keeps us on it longer. And so, it seems like this is right in line with what you're describing is just how do I eliminate a lot of these things in my life so I can be more engaged with my own life?

Nan Wise:
That's exactly the point because we're designed to monitor. The dopamine system is all about attention and when things change and flash and get colorful that pulls our attention.

Corey Allan:
Okay.

Nan Wise:
So by being aware of this, what you get to do is harness where you choose to put your attention and that's where we use the smarter brain ...

Corey Allan:
Right.

Nan Wise:
... and when I say smarter the newer brain that has all of that planning and all of those cool executive functions. When we can deliberately harness attention and modify the stimuli in our environments by let's say, making the phone gray scale so it's not so alluring, it's managing our attention and being less at the mercy of things that are pulling our attention ...

Corey Allan:
Right.

Nan Wise:
... and that's really learning how to modify your environment.

Corey Allan:
Perfect. And so, I would be remiss if we didn't spend the last little bit of this segment talking about now how do you steer this towards a person that's in the SMR nation that has had a lot of this negative connotation when it comes to sex and sexuality? How do you now change and challenge some of that to see it as weight? A lot of this is by design. There is a lot of pleasure associated with this that is good and satisfactory and good for you. But yet we're coming at it with a little bit of this, yeah but it still feels guilt ridden in shame and icky even.

Nan Wise:
So what I did when you were talking about that was I took a very long deep breath in and then a longer smooth exhalation and that's a core physiological way of harnessing your calming nervous system ...

Corey Allan:
Okay, perfect.

Nan Wise:
... and when you do that, when you calm your nervous system you can be more mindful, you can be more creative, you can be more intelligent about things. So what I've dealt with as a sex therapist is a lot of people whose sexual relationship issues that have bled into their marriages are rooted in having had a sex negative experiences in terms of religious training that then creates the shame. Shame is not a core emotion.

Corey Allan:
Right.

Nan Wise:
What's a core emotion is the panic system, like we don't want to be separated from our resources, our people and places and things that we need to survive because like a separated infant is going to be some other animals lunch, so that's wired and it's our attachment system it's there for a reason.

Corey Allan:
Right.

Nan Wise:
So if you think about it, like right now we're all little tweaked in that panic system we're a little worried about food and shelter and what's going to be in money and all those kinds of things. Well, to get back to the sex negativity that unfortunately is part of some religious education, not all.

Corey Allan:
No, I get it.

Nan Wise:
Where it gives people, and often it's females even more than males that are shamed to like that. The idea if they connect with their sexuality they're going to be ostracized. They're going to be criticized, they're going to be punished. They're going to be basically excommunicated, right?

Corey Allan:
Yeah, the label associated with this topic with women is different than the label associated with this topic with men ...

Nan Wise:
Oh, yeah.

Corey Allan:
... completely.

Nan Wise:
Now it doesn't mean that you don't deal with a lot of men that have guilt around sex.

Corey Allan:
True.

Nan Wise:
I have a lot of male clients who were raised in cultures that are very punitive about sexuality and at the top of their mind, they know that sex is a good thing in the context of a great relationship and a marriage and all of that, but they can't get over this old thing where they've been punished if they've shown any interest. I have a client who was actually circumcised as a teenager, his parents did that to keep him from wanting to masturbate, so you think that his sex life has enfolded very easily? No.

Corey Allan:
Right.

Nan Wise:
I have another client who never had an orgasm because she was taught that touching herself was a sin.

Corey Allan:
Right, right.

Nan Wise:
So with women, and this is kind of a scientific fact, if these pathways between the genitals and the brain are not stimulated in a regular way, women are not going to be able to learn to have an orgasm, it's a pleasure pathway.

Corey Allan:
Right, right.

Nan Wise:
So if they don't learn to play their own instrument, are they ever going to play in a band? No. And even if they enjoy sex, the fact that they haven't been able to lay down what I call those pleasure pathways, which I studied, I did research that first map the connections from the female genitals onto the sensory brain that wasn't done in a systematic way till 2011.

Corey Allan:
Right.

Nan Wise:
Basic wiring from the genitals to the brain had not been fully explored scientifically in a systematic way until 2011, so we have a very, I call it lewd prude nation.

Corey Allan:
Yeah, that's pretty good. That's a pretty apt description.

Nan Wise:
A lewd, prude nation. We have such a love hate approach avoidance and it's so sad because pleasure gets such a rap, any kind of pleasure even beyond sex.

Corey Allan:
Right.

Nan Wise:
And getting back to my own nervous system, if you have a lot of anxiety, anxiety or depression or stress doesn't exactly set you up enough to be relaxed and feel ...

Corey Allan:
Oh, totally.

Nan Wise:
... any kind of pleasure.

Corey Allan:
Totally.

Nan Wise:
And that's anhedonia is the clinical term, right? The inability to experience pleasure is a symptom of depression, stress, anxiety, other kinds of mental illnesses or mental health challenges and then it gets worse. If you can't experience pleasure do you really feel like getting up in the morning?

Corey Allan:
Right.

Nan Wise:
Life, when it's pleasurable is more reinforcing because again, it's reinforcing and the better we're able to experience pleasure in our lives the better we're able to be good citizens and connect with other people and do a better job, whatever it is that we're doing, so that's where I sell pleasure ...

Corey Allan:
I get it.

Nan Wise:
... because it makes us more effective ...

Corey Allan:
Absolutely.

Nan Wise:
... more creative.

Corey Allan:
Right, absolutely. It adds a whole different depth and taste and flavor to what we do as existing creatures.

Nan Wise:
And this is how our brain bodies are wired by nature too. Pleasure and pain are important signals that tell us what's good or bad for us, but we've kind of co-opted that because now what's pleasurable is not always healthy because of how we live and what we've gotten away from.

Corey Allan:
Right.

Nan Wise:
In terms of even slowing down to feel sensation ...

Corey Allan:
Right.

Nan Wise:
... just slowing down life will help us be better managers.

Corey Allan:
If I was to sum up all of what you're describing, that's like the major first step and the one we keep coming back to is just how do I get re-attuned to what's going on with me in the moment of whatever it might be around me.

Nan Wise:
Tune in and that means we have to unplug from all of these things that are capturing our attention.

Corey Allan:
Okay.

Nan Wise:
Attention is everything.

Corey Allan:
Right.

Nan Wise:
Because even people that get depressed and anxious, where do they put their attention on the stuff that's scary and depressing? So if we can harness our attention, then we can really have much more control over the emotional systems being more effective and when we're effective we're happier. The philosopher Spinosa said that, to the extent that an organism is effective, the organism is joyful.

Corey Allan:
That's a pretty good place to land this ship for right now then, that's good. So Dr. Nan tell people in the SMR nation how they can find you, your book. I'll put all this information in the show notes as well.

Nan Wise:
Terrific. You can visit my website, ask doctor Nan and doctor is spelled out, D-O-C-T-O-R N-A-N.com and on my website I have links to the articles that I write for Psychology Today, Glamour, the things that I write from my website including all information on how to manage our panic during the coronavirus challenge, I've created a whole free 30 day course ...

Corey Allan:
Right.

Nan Wise:
... that I'm posting videos every day and that's accessible through my website. And also people can book a free 15 minute consult with me through the website where if they have any questions about kind of either their mood or their relationships or their sexuality, I'm happy to help.

Corey Allan:
Perfect, perfect. Dr. Nan, thank you so much and you teed up perfectly where I want to go with you with the extended content here in just a second of the science of orgasms and the wiring and the map that comes along with that. So thank you so much for the work that you do and just helping people challenge some of the way we think things have been in our to see it as what it could be. I am all onboard with that idea, so thank you so much.

Nan Wise:
My absolute pleasure. Thank you for having me.

Corey Allan:
It is amazing to me how there is such a vast array of quality voices and workers and takes and intrigue in everything in the field of marriage and sex.

Pam Allan:
Yep.

Corey Allan:
And being able to be exposed to some that are just doing some groundbreaking work.

Pam Allan:
Well and they're excited and passionate about it and the idea is just to make us better, make us more knowledgeable, how can we use our bodies better?

Corey Allan:
And I love the idea that she's talking about in the sense of how can I just be curious because that's really how she's framed her whole life of just I need to be curious about some of these things because how does it work? And if we can take that aspect for our life and our marriages, there is so much we can learn and change and harness the power that comes with that. And so, man, the extended from today was one of my more fun interviews.

Pam Allan:
One you enjoyed? Yeah.

Corey Allan:
Yeah, I remember you were here for this. We're home together right now both working. I remember hanging up from that call and walking into the room where you're working like that was fun. That was a fun conversation. Hey, well, we want to see on Monday night, April 13th 7:00PM central time, if you're interested in hanging out with us, smrnation.com/hangout is where you can save a spot, it's free. Come see us wherever you are, whatever you're doing. If we don't see on Monday night, we're still so glad you take some time out of your day to spend it with us. We'll see you next time.

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