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hosted by Dr. Corey Allan

Orgasm Denial #561

Join us at the Sexy Marriage Radio Getaway in Indianapolis, June 23-25, 2022 – https://smrnation.com/getaway

On the Regular version of today’s show …

A follow up to a a couple of segments from Episode #559. Was I too harsh in my wording?

A couple is exploring the idea of orgasm denial – where there will be no orgasms for him unless he accomplishes certain tasks or fulfills something set for him by his wife.

On the Xtended version …

How exactly do you work to better yourself? It’s a phrase we often use – but what are some tangible ways this is accomplished?

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Speaker 1: You are listening to the regular version of Sexy Marriage Radio, SMRnation.com.
You've turned on Sexy Marriage Radio, where the best sex happens in the marriage bed. Here's your host, Dr. Corey Allen.

Corey Allan: Well, welcome to March 2022.

Pam Allan: Yeah.

Corey Allan: And a Sexy Marriage Radio.

Pam Allan: Yeah, it's flying by already. We've blinked and the first two months are gone.

Corey Allan: That seems to be the case every month, every year. What's the saying? That every year you get older, the faster the time goes or something like that. It's true.

Pam Allan: I can't, yeah, I can't dispute it.

Corey Allan: So take advantage of the time while you have it, I guess, would be our plea from the very beginning of our show today. But this is Sexy Marriage Radio, where we love to hear from the people that listen and the members of the nation. And the way you can let us know what's on your mind is call us, (214) 702-9565. Leave a voicemail with a question, a topic, feedback, continuation of a topic we've covered. And you just want to give your spin or your take. You get to the front of line that way. Or send us an email, feedback@sexyemmarriageradio.com. And also we ask you to help us spread the word, rate and review, leave a comment on iTunes if you like the show. If you don't like the show, leave a review. We want the feedback. We want to get the information so we're better and then marriages are better. Because I think we'll all benefit when we take the time out to just listen to what's going on, apply it to what fits with me, and keep going. And hopefully as of the airing of this now, there's a lucky couple that has won a scholarship to the Sexy Marriage Radio Getaway at the end of the day that this is airing.

Pam Allan: That's right.

Corey Allan: So you'll be notified via email if you put your name in. And if you missed the window to get a chance to get a scholarship for the registration, you can still sign up. We got till April 15th, so you got like a month and a half before the rate goes up.

Pam Allan: Get that early bird discount

Corey Allan: Spaces are limited, so jump in if you've been on the fence wondering if you're going to come join us in Indy in June 23rd to the 25th. Sign up now. SMRnation.com/getaway is how you can come join us. We're coming up on today's regular free version of Sexy Marriage Radio. We've got a few loose ends to wrap up, Pam.

Pam Allan: We do.

Corey Allan: From two weeks ago.

Pam Allan: Okay.

Corey Allan: And the episode that we were a little, I think one of the emails his reference was counselor-y or counselor-ish.

Pam Allan: Okay.

Corey Allan: And so we've got a couple different things we'll tie up today to help continuing that conversation. Plus a voicemail that's come in, we'll cover as well. And then on the extended content today, which is Deeper, Longer and there are no ads. You can subscribe at smrnation.com/SMRacademy, we're going to dive into based off an email that's come in from a listener on he's in a gridlock issue with his wife and so he has decided he's going to work on himself. He's heard us say that several times. So what exactly does that mean?

Pam Allan: Oh, this gets me excited. This is my favorite part of everything we talk about.

Corey Allan: And so that's where we're heading today.

Pam Allan: Yay.

Corey Allan: All that's coming up on today's show. So we'll start with the loose ends that we need to wrap up.

Pam Allan: All right, yeah. Fill me in.

Corey Allan: From episode 559 is what we'll be referencing.

Pam Allan: Okay.

Corey Allan: Okay? And so the first came in from, because this is funny because it's a follow up to a follow up, if you think about the thread of things and some of that's just always fascinating to me. But this is when made a comment about somebody from Instagram with the Christian Who Curse Sometimes. And I had made a statement about, "Ask yourself a question, is the sex you're having worth wanting? And if you want to go deeper, ask yourself, are you worth having sex with?" Right?

Corey Allan: And so the email came in and said, "Thanks so much for the work that you do. And I was listening to the start of 559 and I may have picked up on what caused the issue to your question. You were clarifying and defending the question of, 'Are you worth having sex with?' In the past, I believe you framed this question slightly different as in, is sex with you worth having? This question lands very differently when the object of worth being evaluated is the sex, not the you. I wonder also if this resonates differently when you're asking a man versus a woman, but I think what I listed above is the main obstacle. I would strongly recommend phrasing it as, 'Is sex with you worth having,' rather than 'Are you worth having sex with?' I think you meant the same thing both ways, but it feels different to someone encountering the inquiry for the first time. I hope I've captured this accurately. Thanks for the listening and being open to the feedback so that we all get better together."

Pam Allan: That's interesting, because those really are two different questions.

Corey Allan: On the statements?

Pam Allan: Yeah.

Corey Allan: Change a couple of words and you change the meanings dramatically.

Pam Allan: And I'm curious from your standpoint, is his diagnosis correct or did you really intend the, "Are you worth having sex?" Because you may very well have meant that.

Corey Allan: There's two levels to this because the one of, "Is the sex you're having worth wanting," is more of the actionable, what's going on, what's your role in co-creating it? But then the other side of it is a deeper, more penetrating question about our worthiness, our value, our identity. And looking back at it, I don't know if I was meaning when I wrote it to go really straight at the person. It was more just a, that's just the way I wrote it. And so I think he's spot on in his read and capturing it because those two things, like you're picking up on, do make dramatically different meanings. But I think we can go with both of them. And so if it is a newer person coming into this vernacular, it's better to have it framed as, "Is the sex you're having worth wanting?" Right? Well, are you offering up ...

Pam Allan: And is the sex with you worth having?

Corey Allan: Perfect. Yes.

Pam Allan: Right. That's what his point.

Corey Allan: Right, because I think ... I'm just kind of going back all the way through the 10 years of doing this show, and one of the phrases that's always stuck with me is this idea, "Is the sex I'm having worth wanting?" That's where I picked it up from [inaudible 00:06:36] . That's the very first person I heard it.

Pam Allan: Yeah.

Corey Allan: But then as more and more I think about it, a lot of this whole thing that we talk about when it comes to our sex lives and in marriage where we can't hide who we are and how we view ourselves, sometimes the more penetrative question is necessary.

Pam Allan: Yeah. The, are you worth having sex with?

Corey Allan: How do I view me? How do I view my worthiness, my identity, my value? What am I bringing to the equation?

Pam Allan: Well, some of this goes into what we'll talk about in the extended time when you're talking about that specific question.

Corey Allan: On how do I continue to evolve that and grow in that, yes.

Pam Allan: How am I working on me?

Corey Allan: So I think there's merit to both, and I probably should have taken better care with the audience, knowing if it's an Instagram and the way I wrote it. I probably should have recognized that the differences between those two phraseologies. But it still, I think we can go both ways with it. And I think it's important to kind of recognize, okay, depending on where you are in your journey and how you are the process of self confrontation, each of those me messages can go a little bit different.

Pam Allan: Right, still a valid question.

Corey Allan: It absolutely is. And I don't even know where to end it from there.

Pam Allan: Okay, well go on the next one. What are we going into next?

Corey Allan: So this came from another listener. It says, "They're a consistent listener here for years. Like Pam said at the end of the show, I agree. The discussion was sort of high altitude. Sometimes I feel the show gets a bit too, how can I say, for counselors. This was one of those episodes, perhaps, but I was still able to follow along with Corey and his approach to gridlock was helpful. I'd like to simplify for the non-sex counselor crowd. So here goes." So he's going to try to help.

Pam Allan: He summing up.

Corey Allan: Frame this.

Pam Allan: I sum up. I sum up.

Corey Allan: To the gridlock based on dissimilar interests, each party should ask themselves, "Am I being selfish?" Each person should self-examine their hearts, but fallen human beings need to watch for the simple issue of selfishness. Love is not self-seeking, the Bible says. True love will not demand, and that's it. If there are issues from there, each person can bring them to God first, and of course just honestly discuss the desires. Where there are dissimilar interests, there can be grace. The love we have for our spouse has the power to overcome whatever fetish we don't sexually have gratified. I have a gridlock area in my marriage, and the correct thing to do has been to see that being stubborn about it is basically unloving and selfish. Personally, my love for my wife is more important and significant than my sexual fantasies. To me, the issue is not mainly, how can I understand myself more and self examine or how can I understand my spouse more? It is at the root of our own bent in around ourselves, and that is the real battle of and for marriage, the pursuit of selflessness. No?" That's his phrase.

Pam Allan: That's his phrase, okay.

Corey Allan: And I think there's some merit here. And this is one of those things, so if people that are members of the academy and we're on our coaching call at the end of February, we talked about some of this dynamic. And so I want to go a little bit further with this on a larger audience.

Pam Allan: Okay.

Corey Allan: Because I like what he's saying here, that there's this element of, if you look at it through the lens of what we describe with marriage, it's a mirror that reveals a lot of ourselves. And some of what I need to refine or grow up from and through is my tendency to want things my way, my tendency to demand, my tendency to manipulate and cajole or try to convince, so that I just get things, so it's more comfortable for me. And so what he's pointing out is, if I'm using this lens of love, is that loving?

Pam Allan: Valid question.

Corey Allan: Right? And because I think that gives us a standard to strive for, to move towards. And I can use it as a marker for my own growth and my own path of recognizing things. But I'm being very intentional to not land on his word selfish.

Pam Allan: Okay.

Corey Allan: Because I think the word selfish has a lot of different meanings that don't quite capture what really goes on.

Pam Allan: Okay. You want to expound on that a little bit?

Corey Allan: Well tell me what you're hearing from the way he's framed it and the way I'm kind of easing into this part of this, into this segment.

Pam Allan: Well, I mean his way in my mind is wording. There seems to be from a grown up perspective. I got to have grace. My concern there was, am I doing this and saying it's out of love, but then I'm just getting walked all over because I'm going to back down from anything that may be a desire of my own.

Corey Allan: Right.

Pam Allan: Because my spouse ... I think his model works in a relationship where both adults, both partners, are grown up and trying to do things out of love. But we've got so many instances where one part ...

Corey Allan: It doesn't appear to be the case?

Pam Allan: That doesn't appear to be the case. And so how do you address it in those scenarios?

Corey Allan: Right.

Pam Allan: Right? I can come from love all day long and get walked over like a doormat.

Corey Allan: Right, or keep feeling like I'm banging my head against the wall perpetually. Because the phrase that jumps out to me, and then I'll move back to the selfishness, is his statement of, "Where there are dissimilar interests, there can be grace. The love we have for our spouse has the power to overcome whatever fetish we don't sexually have gratified." I think there's truth in there, but this is back to the academy call. I think there's things that we posit as paths forward. It's like, "Well here are the churchese. We need to pray more. You need to submit more." And that's stuff that's being delivered, it's not wrong. But oftentimes it's not enough. It's not the whole story.

Pam Allan: Okay?

Corey Allan: Right, because this idea whole idea of, "I need to love you more on the gridlock issues we have." Well, that doesn't take away the pain right then and there. Until I can readjust my mind and my thinking to it as well, and I can readjust my feelings to it as well, while at the same time, not feeling like I'm giving up on myself.

Pam Allan: Can we throw out a specific example to illustrate it a little better?

Corey Allan: Well, so let's go back to the fetish of, He wanted to do some prostate massage during mutual masturbation from two weeks ago.

Pam Allan: Yep.

Corey Allan: And she was, no, not interested in that. So he asked to ask himself the question of, is my desire to want to participate in that with her, what does that provide for me? Versus it's just my desire. Is it lessened if she's not involved in it or not? Because that is his growth path.

Pam Allan: What is his growth path?

Corey Allan: Deciding on what is it about her being involved in it that makes it what it is for him.

Pam Allan: Okay.

Corey Allan: Versus, because you can participate in prostate play with no one around. And so it's looking at it as ... because I just think some of these things, and this is what we try to tackle if you think back through the history of Sexy Marriage Radio, we try to tackle these things with giving a framework, because there's really not a, here's the path forward. We can't say, "Well, what if on Tuesdays you get this and then on Friday she gets that?" We try all these different ways to overcome these issues that we have that are just pressures between us, that they don't solve it completely.

Pam Allan: Okay.

Corey Allan: But I need to look at my manner and how I'm going about it to try to solve it. Who am I? That's where he's right in this of, "If I'm framing things as I love my spouse, does selfishness have a place?" Because to me, selfishness usually has a negative connotation. But I think there's also can be a neutral, maybe even a positive connotation, and it all is about context. Because most of the time you hear the word selfish is when I want to pursue something you're not interested in and so you will call me selfish, let's say.

Pam Allan: Okay.

Corey Allan: But you calling me selfish is the same premise because you don't don't want what I want, therefore you're selfish about that.

Pam Allan: Understood. Understood. We both have the same argument that the other one's being selfish.

Corey Allan: Exactly. So the selfless, I like this idea. But that also presupposes I have a self, which that's the whole point of me growing and me evolving, to give of up on my desires without feeling like I'm giving up on myself.

Pam Allan: Hmm, interesting.

Corey Allan: And it's not always that I'm going to give up everything, but I think I can reevaluate and recalibrate my relationship to my desires because they evolve.

Pam Allan: They do, true that.

Corey Allan: And so recognizing yes, I'm in the midst now, but my relationship with what I'm in the midst of will evolve and change. So who am I in the manner of changing within that dynamic? So I think that's where it lands the most that I can look at it as yes, I'm called to love, which that's usually the betterment of the whole, if I will go that route. If I'm manipulating, that's to the betterment of one, ultimately then none.

Pam Allan: True.

Corey Allan: If I want a relationship. So it's looking through this as a lens of, how do I need to be able to understand myself and self-examine and then act accordingly with this desire I've got a fetish I've got or whatever it may be? Because that's our paths forward. That's all we've got. And do you have something more?

Pam Allan: I don't. I don't.

Corey Allan: I want to flip to the other end into the spectrum.

Pam Allan: Go for it.

Corey Allan: With our next segment.

Pam Allan: Okay.

Speaker 4: Hi, I've searched your archives and didn't find anything about orgasm denial. And I'm just wondering if the concept raises any red flags for you. So here's our situation. My wife and I have been married for over 20 years. We have three children that are almost grown and we still have a healthy sex life with a frequency of two or three times a week. We like to try new things to keep it exciting. And I've noticed that on a week when we haven't had sex for whatever reason, I get really horny, I guess, and can't keep my hands off of my wife. But it's not exactly frustration, it's more excitement. So could it be an okay idea to harness this excitement? I've heard of the concept of orgasm denial, where the wife will intentionally withhold an orgasm from her husband as a tease or to build excitement. And this can also be part of some kind of role playing.

Speaker 4: So here's the role playing I have in mind. My wife wants our basement storage room to be organized. I don't think it's that urgent, so I never get around to it. But if she were to say, "Hey, no more orgasms for you until the basement is organized," suddenly I'm all in. She thinks this plan is a little silly. I should just want to help her organize the basement. It shouldn't have anything to do with sex. But she's willing to go along with it because she wants me to be happy and she wants the basement to get organized. So is this okay? I'm thinking especially of First Corinthians seven verse five where it says, "Do not deprive each other except by mutual consent and for a time so that you may devote yourselves to prayer," which there's no prayer angle for us in this. "Then come together again so Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self control." But I feel like it is mutual and there is some self-control going on.

Speaker 4: And here's a bonus detail that you can edit out if it's too explicit. So at the end of each basement organizing session, the plan is she would evaluate my work and if she's pleased, then we get to snuggle and I might offer her physical pleasure manual or oral that she can say no to. And if she's not pleased, then she spanks me with a paddle, and either option is very arousing to me. Well, thanks for your show and I look forward to the answer. Bye.

Corey Allan: So here we're at the other end of what we're talking about. So we got to make sure it's very clear that this is not a follow up to the two weeks prior. This is a whole new segment. And so I don't want be people thinking we're going to try to tie this all in together.

Pam Allan: Okay. Okay, yeah.

Corey Allan: Because this is on the other side of the equation where they're utilizing the dynamic and the role play and the tension as a fuel, if you will, as something to propel forward. And at face value from the couples I've come across that have incorporated similar dynamics where it really largely is the dominant submissive idea, the role play, the power dynamic in there, the polarities even fits. If they're both on board, go for it. It's a way to enhance some of the dynamic and energy and maybe you get the basement cleaned out of this whole thing too, quickly.

Pam Allan: Right, yeah. I'm not clear on the correlation of the First Corinthians in there. I think that the scripture has a whole different connotation.

Corey Allan: Absolutely.

Pam Allan: Than what we're using here,

Corey Allan: I think, yeah, and he recognizes that. But I think he also is asking the question of, if you're abstaining from it, is that a problem? Because they're not abstaining for prayer according to the scriptures. I mean, that was the little statement that was written in there of, don't deny each other, in essence, of the sexual dynamic between you except for a mutual consent.

Pam Allan: Gotcha.

Corey Allan: To reserve time for prayer.

Pam Allan: Okay. I mean, it sounds like they're both in agreement on what they're doing here. Didn't sound like one of them was maliciously withholding anything.

Corey Allan: No, and he's even describing though the joy and the pleasure he gets out of it.

Pam Allan: Yeah, kind of the buildup to it. And she sounds totally fine with it.

Corey Allan: Yeah. And he actually did a follow up email to give a quick update.

Pam Allan: Oh, okay.

Corey Allan: Just saying, "We decided to go ahead with the chastity play. We're 10 days into it and basement storage room is getting organized. I'm very horny and affectionate towards my wife. I find I'm aroused and compelled to do more housework and I'm more efficient at my job so that I can get home earlier and start pleasing her. I'm aroused and compelled to be thoughtful about offering her small acts of kindness. It's all turned into big turn ons for me." And so it's just, he goes on and talks more, but it's an element of just the dynamics working, because this is more of a role play, almost, dynamic that they're working out here. And so I look at it as, okay, if that's harnessing this energy and making it something that's not weaponized between you, you both are on board, that's stuff that we've kind of been advocates for in a lot of different arenas.

Pam Allan: I mean, it sounds fun. It sounds like a couple that, at least he is, figuring out what makes him tick and what's exciting that is totally within the boundaries for both of them. And so, enjoy it!

Corey Allan: And at the end of his follow up, he even says, "It's not something I want to continue beyond a few weeks. I just don't think that's sustainable. I'd be exhausted. But it is a nice tool to have in the toolbox."

Pam Allan: Well, yeah, a little change up. We all like change ups a little bit.

Corey Allan: Sure, because some of this is what we do as part of the chase. It's part of the intrigue. It's part of tapping into the erotic. We do this in a lot of different ways, maybe just not near as overt as what they're describing. Because there is an element of, hey, this is an energy and a dynamic going on between husband and wife. Harness it. Utilize it and see what you can get done. Maybe you get top to bottom, the whole house cleaned.

Pam Allan: Right. And kudos to you. Thanks for giving an idea to other people that this may be ringing true to in the nation.

Corey Allan: Maybe so. So before we segue into the extended content, I'm going to read the email to set it up and then we'll spend time talking about it.

Pam Allan: Perfect.

Corey Allan: In the extended content. So this says, "My question's about the higher desire working on himself and defining what that exactly needs. The context would be a lower desire wife refusing to do much of anything on her end, no sexual expression verbally in conversation or even text or email, no fantasies. Believe me, we've read through lists of what I would be considering okay to do in marriage and even all the immoral ones such as threesome, same sex, stranger, et cetera, you name it. You name it, it does not do anything for her. No desire for toys. She could have the biggest and best orgasm of her life and never talk about it later or even try and replicate it ever again. I feel she's completely content on being non-sexual in expression, conversation, exploration and novelty. No desire for the connection that I want. This is after two years of me asking specifically, me bringing it up often, creating a two year continual argument."

Corey Allan: "So I've decided to try and work on myself or better myself. Okay. What does that mean exactly and specifically? Work on myself until my desire for a good sex life goes away? Practically what does it mean when I arrive at a place betterment? I will no longer desire her. Maybe I'll be so spiritual that sex won't be a thing in my life? Go to the gym and make muscles a priority? Focus on business and money? I know it's a loaded question, but if I cannot get success in this area and divorce is not an option because there's no unfaithfulness, what other option is there? And what are the specifics of bettering one's self? How does one who desires spicy sex and connection just give it up? Thanks. Signed, Mr. Focusing on me."

Pam Allan: Those are tough questions.

Corey Allan: And Pam has all the answers in the extended content. Well, based on the conversation you and I just had, Pam, in the ended content today, I'm going to be interested in what happens when we stop the recording.

Pam Allan: I'm going to have to go back and analyze, I guess, my desires.

Corey Allan: You have to listen to this again when it comes out.

Pam Allan: Yeah, I know. I know. What's new? What's new?

Corey Allan: Well, this is one of those things that's so much fun about doing this show for so long that we've been doing it now. Because it's really a relationship with the nation that we get people that push back. We get people that ask the good questions, that speak into, "But how do I really do that? No, give me more specific. Get narrower. Get deeper." Those kinds of things. And that's where we get better.

Pam Allan: Yeah.

Corey Allan: And then I think that all also helps challenge us in our own life.

Pam Allan: Yeah.

Corey Allan: In a lot of ways, too. Well, this has been Sexy Marriage Radio. If we left something undone or we're too counselor-ish, 214-702-9565 or feedback at Sexymarriageradio.com. We'll see you next time.