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hosted by Dr. Corey Allan

Spouse Won’t Try Anything New #458

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On the Regular version of today’s show …

Dr Laura Dabney joins me to answer a couple of questions from the SMR Nation. 

A husband asks for help in getting his wife to be willing to try new things in sex.

And a wife emails wanting to know how to get her husband to seek help with his ED issues. 

Learn more about Dr Dabney on her website – https://www.drldabney.com/ or call her at 757-695-3925

On the Xtended version …

Dr Dabney and I discuss the trend of our field and society seeking to medicate problems rather than address them head on. 

Enjoy the show!

Got a question?

CALL US 214-702-9565
or email us at feedback@sexymarriageradio.com

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Get help for your relationship and sex life from the comfort of your own home. This is an opportunity for YOU to fully experience the fact that “The BEST SEX can happen IN the Marriage Bed!” ...

Corey Allan:
So welcome to Sexy Marriage Radio. Straight from the inbox as we start off today's episode. I love when these kinds of emails come in to feedback@sexymarriageradio.com. "Corey and Pam, after years of talking to my wife about Sexy Marriage Radio, recently, as we traveled as empty nesters to watch our youngest daughter run for her college team, we started listening to the podcast to pass the time on the road. Last couple of times we've been on the road, Sexy Marriage Radio is the one we listened to. Well, listen, pause, discuss, and we'll thoroughly enjoy our hotel room or bedroom after the trip is over. Yesterday, in the morning, my wife was open but not excited about sex. Four hours later, when the drive was over, she said, 'Game on,' and she wasn't talking about the track meet."

Pam Allan:
So I love that because that is so real, right?

Corey Allan:
Yep.

Pam Allan:
Well, love some road trip action anyway. But the conversations, I mean, that creates a closeness right there because you're talking through dreams, desires, what really hits home to each of you. That's kind of an aphrodisiac right there in and of itself.

Corey Allan:
Right. And that's the concept of Sexy Marriage Radio large part is we want to talk about what life is. It's not just sex, right?

Pam Allan:
Right.

Corey Allan:
That's the concept of how we do sex matters. But, man, it shows so much of how we also do life, and it's a huge part of married life. We're so excited that the SMR nation spends time each and every week with us. So welcome to joining us again this week. We're so glad that you've turned us on however you choose to listen. We're glad you find us. We also ask that we hear from you and the way you can let us know questions you've got or how road trip works out for you.

Pam Allan:
I love those stories.

Corey Allan:
We both do. So call us at 214-702-9565 or send us an email feedback@sexymarriageradio.com. Then, if the things resonate with you and you like what's going on, we just ask you to jump on iTunes, or Spotify, or iHeartRadio, or however you choose to listen and write and review, leave a comment, help spread the word that married sex can have it going on and that you too can have game on.

Pam Allan:
Right.

Corey Allan:
So apparently, the way we started last week with the whole conversation about slowing down and the phone resonated with quite a few people in the SMR nation.

Pam Allan:
Yeah. I'm getting a lot of advice.

Speaker 4:
Hey, guys. First, I want to thank you. I love listening to your podcast. It's so incredibly helpful. Second, I don't really have a question. But I was listening to your latest podcast where in the beginning, you talked about making your smartphone a dumb phone and taking off the apps and the notifications and all the notifications that you get and so you're constantly picking up your phone and looking at it. I still have all the apps on my phone, but one of the suggestions that I got last year that I did that has made a huge difference for me is that I turned off the notifications. I still have all the gaps, but the only notifications that I get on my phone are phone calls, and texts, my calendar notifications, and then very specific Instagram notifications.

Speaker 4:
Other than that, all my other notifications are turned off. So if I want to look at something, I have the ability to, but my phone's not constantly going off all day long. It's made such a huge difference, especially in the evenings when we're trying to spend time together as a family and that type of situation. Even out and about, your phone's not going off constantly when you're in the middle of Walmart or something. So just a suggestion, instead of taking off the apps, just turn off the notifications. Thanks. Love you guys. Bye.

Corey Allan:
I love when the SMR nation speaks up-

Speaker 4:
Yep, good tip.

Corey Allan:
... to help out because there is an element of... That's one of the things we found with the Mastermind groups that I've got going and then the Academy that all takes place on Slack that if I had all the notifications on for that, the phone would be dinging, and pinging, and vibrating all the time because there's lots of conversations that take place. But that's a great tip to simplify some of the distraction. But the premise of what I'm trying to do with this too, just to clarify, because I've had some conversation in the Academy on this too, is this is just taking away not the distractions that come at me, the distractions that I pulled towards because they're there. As in, I check email too much, or I jump on Slack to see what's going on, or it's that constant, "I need that ping, that endorphin hit."

Corey Allan:
So I've eliminated a bunch of these things to help it to where now my phone, the apps that are on there are things that are necessities and they bring a lot of joy like Kindle, and Audible, Maps, and Life360, some of the different things we have as a family because that's how it functions for us. So those are there, and it's just really pairing it all down. If you want to add another little layer to this, this is from that book, The Ruthless Elimination of Hurry, set your phone to grayscale mode.

Pam Allan:
What is that supposed to do for you?

Corey Allan:
So apparently, the color that's built into the pixelating in the phone with the color is designed for a dopamine hit that keeps you on the phone longer. Set it to black and white, kind of grayscale, and it takes away that trigger in your brain, that draw.

Pam Allan:
Wow, that's an interesting-

Speaker 1:
It really is.

Pam Allan:
... braintease right there.

Corey Allan:
So I've had that going on now. So as of last show, I said I set it all that way and then I immediately put it back on. Now, I've got everything back off, and it's grayscale and it's been fabulous with the difference. The other segment that we talked about on the same concept was the idea, this is people helping you out apparently, of how do phone calls get through when you don't want the distraction? But how do you make it to where people could still possibly get you as in me or family members?

Corey Allan:
So every phone has a Do Not Disturb feature, and this is just people from the SMR nation are throwing this to us and so we're throwing it back to the nation because other people may not know this function. But if you set your phone to Do Not Disturb, you can set that up so your favorites can still get through. So that's a nice little tip if you wanted to use that. If that helps you in SMR nation, fire away. We hope it's helpful. Because we want to help married life and just life flow better for everybody in the nation.

Corey Allan:
So coming up on today's regular free version of Sexy Marriage Radio, I'm joined with a guest again, Dr. Laura Dabney, who's a psychiatrist that does therapy. So she doesn't do as much med management anymore, at all really. She's a coach and a therapist. So she joins me in the free section, and we answer a couple of questions that have come in via email from the SMR nation. So getting her take on a wife that is not willing to try new things in bed and in sex, and a husband who has serious struggles with erections but yet is married to a woman that is definitely the higher desire. So we talk about both ends of the spectrum if you will.

Pam Allan:
That's good. Yeah.

Corey Allan:
I get her take because it's kind of fun to have another person in the field to steer some of these conversations and to help enhance them.

Pam Allan:
Absolutely.

Corey Allan:
Then coming up on the extended version of Sexy Marriage Radio, which is deeper, longer, and there is no ads, you can subscribe at smrnation.com, I continue the conversation with Dr. Dabney except this time, we get into the idea of what is the whole aspect of medicating our problems. Because there is an element with the psychopharmacological world and the drug, big pharma if you will, pushing meds that sometimes it's just the hope some people can take, and all of us can do this to a degree, we're just trying to medicate our problems not really address them.

Pam Allan:
Right. It's a quick fix.

Corey Allan:
So I'm fascinated with her take on this because this is more in her training. So I was curious, what does she do with this?

Pam Allan:
Yeah. And as someone who prescribes, I mean, she's got a really keep in line with potentially guiding people to or from-

Corey Allan:
Yep.

Pam Allan:
Yeah.

Corey Allan:
So all that's coming up on today's show. So joining me again today on Sexy Marriage Radio is she's becoming a fast friend, it's Dr. Laura Dabney. She's been on in the past. She is one of the colleagues in the profession, I guess, I could say. I mean, we're still colleagues, but you've got the MD going, I've got the PhD going. So there's a little different variance on our journeys thus far.

Laura Dabney:
Right. That's what makes us work well together.

Corey Allan:
Perfect. That's how I'm wanting to have you help frame some of this with me today because you have some takes on stuff that's very, very valuable. One of the things with Sexy Marriage Radio is we're trying to always help the listeners and the SMR nation figure out what's going on, what's normal, what's not, how do I solve this? Because it's not news to either one of us that there's problems in marriage, there's problems in sex, and normal people have problems.

Laura Dabney:
Right, everybody has problems.

Corey Allan:
Absolutely. So we'll for sure try to normalize some of this, but I want to utilize you if you're willing with today's episode to help me answer some questions that have been specifically coming in. Okay?

Laura Dabney:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Corey Allan:
Then, let's see where we go. Does that work for you?

Laura Dabney:
Oh, that's great. I'd love nothing more.

Corey Allan:
Perfect. All right. This is an email from a husband that's a long-time listener, loves the changes that we've had over the years, and thanks the show, just keeps getting better and better. So both he and his wife grew up religious. Both belief sex should be reserved for marriage and even though they'd had prior sexual experiences with others, they kept their convictions and made it to the wedding day as virgins with each other. "First night together, wife asked if we could not have sex because she was scared and I didn't think it was wise to force anything so we didn't. That's where the trouble began, and it persists to this day. Fast forward 30 years, now our marriage has had decades of denial, hesitancy on part of my wife to try anything outside the missionary position. It actually took her seven years to even be willing to be on top, and 12-plus years to even be open to oral sex and only by me."

Corey Allan:
So during years five through seven, he was frustrated, found porn to be an easy but unfulfilling substitute. She found out, was hurt. They've tried to work through the impact of the denial, his use of porn. He's not using anymore. A hesitancy on her part to add anything remotely new sexually has created an impasse or the gridlock. So this is a familiar cycle, right, Laura?

Laura Dabney:
Yes. Yes.

Corey Allan:
"It works for weeks, months, years, work up the courage to suggest or request something, she freaks out. I battle feeling like a pervert or evil. I retreat, telling myself I was wrong to even bring it up even I don't believe that's true. Eventually, she reluctantly may participate after lots of conversation, arguments, frustration." And then if they do engage in something new, she does so without enthusiasm or passion. "I've asked her if she would like to try anything new. She says she doesn't. I've tried the route of taking the lead, doing new things without prior discussion, and she freezes, tenses up, I lose momentum and excitement."

Corey Allan:
So he's gone the route of, "I'll suggest books, blogs, podcasts, studies." He's almost 100% percent sure, "That we'd never do anything but missionary if it was up to her." And he's not okay with that. He ends it with, "I feel cheated, stuck, angry, and if I'm honest, pretty hopeless." Divorce is not one option they want to follow due to faith, and so he feels doomed to ride out the rest of his days, "Now long past my sexual prime without any changes, please help." So there's a lot going on here in a gridlock pattern that is all too familiar for a lot of people.

Laura Dabney:
Right.

Corey Allan:
So I'm curious, what jumps out to you?

Laura Dabney:
Well, several things. But what jumps out, and again, it's unfortunate we can't do this live with this person because I'm going to have to make assumptions based on what he said, so just giving that caveat, Mr. Listener. There's a lot of talk about her. "She won't. She will. She won't. She won't. She won't. She won't. She won't." I see this a lot, and it usually comes from a fantasy, a wish that the other person needs to change. Then, when that person changes, we'll be happy.

Corey Allan:
Right.

Laura Dabney:
That's where I implore people, beg people, please understand. It would be so much easier for you to change yourself.

Corey Allan:
Right.

Laura Dabney:
Then, people go, "But I don't have the problem." I say, "Yes, you do have the problem. You have a problem of a wife who's not doing what you want her to do, or she's not somehow magically figuring out what you want." I think what's happening is... He says he goes months and years without saying anything, then he does. That strikes me because what happens to all of us, I think, when we are told something after years is that, "Oh my God, I've been doing it wrong all this time. And you've never said."

Corey Allan:
It compounds it all because there's this message of, "Wait, you're withholding, you're not even being upfront and shooting straight?" So that just adds an additional pressure.

Laura Dabney:
Right.

Corey Allan:
Right.

Laura Dabney:
It's this terrible sense of I don't know if it's exactly distrust but somewhere in that family.

Corey Allan:
Let's talk about a little bit of that because there's a dark side to that that needs to be acknowledged of there's an element of betrayal in that of, "Wait you're..." I hear it the way you're framing it, and I like this because it's the idea of he wants her to be engaged, and vibrant, and open, and excited, and when she's not, it's an indictment on him. But yet, he's not expressing that which then in turn, if he's not expressing who he is, he's not being engaging, and vibrant, and open about what he's wanting.

Laura Dabney:
Exactly.

Corey Allan:
Okay.

Laura Dabney:
The openness starts before the sex, I talk about. The intimacy starts way before the sex.

Corey Allan:
Right.

Laura Dabney:
Right. I'm wondering, and aren't you wondering if they do this on other things? If there's other things he doesn't like about the relationship, I'm wondering if he's holds that until the last minute?

Corey Allan:
well, and I'm going to also be willing to venture to guess she does it too on other topics because I think we play the same game. That's why we click in some regards. That's why we're so frustrated with each other in some regards because the script is similar.

Laura Dabney:
Well, exactly. He does say, "I get the impression that she says, 'Yes or no. I'll try that.'" But I don't get the impression she's really talking about her feelings, and thoughts, and why mission, why is that better, and what's all this about?

Corey Allan:
Right. No. I like that, and I think you're on the right track, Laura, because he even makes the comment of, at least the way I see it, when she reluctantly tries to do something or she engages in it and she's not enthusiastic, he feeds off that which loses it for him. Which, there's the rub of okay, you're taking too much cue from her rather than bringing yourself forward to be exposed, to be vulnerable, to be willing to take the risk, to take the hit, to lead, to own the mantra. This is the one things I love is the mantra of if I bring up something new and my spouse thinks I'm perverted, how do I grow into the fact that perverted isn't a bad thing?

Laura Dabney:
Or, that it's just her view?

Corey Allan:
Exactly. Because maybe what I'm liking to do... I mean, I use this as a joke when I'm speaking a lot of times. If Pam was to say, "That's perverted and disgusting, why would you want to do that?" Like, "That's exactly why I want to do that. What a great thing to do with you. Come on. I want to share this with you because it's perverted. It's so awesome."

Laura Dabney:
Yes. That's who you're supposed to be doing that with. So yes. Then, the other thing to think about when you do keep something to yourself for a long time thinking you're being the nice guy or accommodating, you fall into that bury and blow thing. We talked about that before. This whole you bury, bury, bury, bury. It's going to be very hard for you to hold on to that resentment so when he is finally telling her, is it coming out a little harsher than it should be?

Corey Allan:
And, how else is it coming out? Because that's what you were touching on just a minute ago because how do we hide? I don't know. You just started meddling in my world there, Laura, real quick. One of the things that's been interesting because Pam actually mentioned the other day in front of our kids, I have a tell that when I'm frustrated about something. I had my tell that I displayed at dinner one night and Pam, in real-time, said, "Hey, kids, that's dad's tell that he's frustrated about something." I'm like, "Do tell. Explain." Started realizing I have a tendency to do the whole... It's a deep breath and I clear my throat, and that's a tell of I'm holding back something. Which, there it is because it all comes out.

Corey Allan:
So your work, because this is the thing I've loved about the way you frame a lot of stuff, is how do you start to just be honest and acknowledge that to yourself first and then come up with the better ways to detach from the negativity or the judgment of that emotion and just see it as, "Wait, how do I just use this as a neutral fuel to steer it someplace better, to be up open about it, upfront about it, and acknowledge it?" That's kind of what you're saying for him.

Laura Dabney:
Exactly. You said it's so beautifully. I don't if I could even say it any better. Just to take that a step further with him or anybody, if you're having a perfectionist subconscious that you can't even have any negative feeling, you're compounding the problem. So we implore the listener to take the advice just Corey just said where you are curious about your anger, resentment, frustration because the curiosity is what's going to lead you to, as you were saying, come up with the best solution for it.

Corey Allan:
Right. I think that that's recognizing how to... Because, again, in my opinion, you got to define the word solution because it probably does not mean some vixen, crazy woman in the sack right away that's willing to now blow your mind in all the positions, and techniques, and everything she's willing to try. It's largely probably going to be, "Okay..." This is the thread I've been on lately of there is sex with genitalia then there's also the level of sex with whoever I'm having it with that that genitalia is attached to.

Laura Dabney:
Right, exactly.

Corey Allan:
That's where it gets deep, and meaningful, and lasting, and profound because it's more than just an act. You're experiencing and tasting the essence of your spouse.

Laura Dabney:
Right. Very nicely put, again. What's the solution that's going to work for what you want in the long run? So you have this short-run view, and then the solution of how's it going to impact, help your relationship going forward?

Corey Allan:
Right. Because he's in-

Laura Dabney:
You have to look at one-

Corey Allan:
Go ahead. No, keep going. Keep going, sorry.

Laura Dabney:
There's one other thing we have to look at here in this talk about when you bury something, it comes out sideways in the side but it also comes outside ways in the punishment.

Corey Allan:
Okay, keep going.

Laura Dabney:
So that whole he was using pornography and she found out, I mean, that's punitive to her because he wasn't able to talk about his anger, frustration enough to get it out. I know it's not on purpose, but it's the accidentally on purpose, "Oh, no. Now I'm punishing you for this."

Corey Allan:
So add that label that you've already added of curiosity to this to my own a litmus test of how do I view what I do and how can I be curious about... Because that's the whole touch on, and this is where... Man, in our profession, none of us are going to come in as mental health professionals, I would hope... I'll speak for you and I think because I know you well enough. I think I can put you in this category of we're not going to come in and say judgment of, "Nope, that's wrong. Yep." That's up to each person. But how do I start to recognize...

Corey Allan:
Because we want to play it nice with people on, "Well, it was probably an accident or it was a subconscious thing." Rather than, "What if you were curious about maybe I did have an element of me that turned to porn because I'm cruel and it's a punishment. It's an easy way, yes, it's an easy way to get my needs met or pass some time." But you're talking about a punitive side of things that maybe if I'm curious about, maybe there's a part of me that has that ability and I love at least acknowledging that I can have that part of me and see how I can grow from understanding that more.

Laura Dabney:
Well, I think it comes out of the whole if he was comfortable with his anger long enough to sit with it and then do the process we talked about. "What's the best option? Should I tell her? And if that's so, how should I tell her? Should I do something else by myself or something that's not punitive?" I mean, most people get to the punitive thing when they're trying to avoid the thing they feel guilty about. He feels guilty about the anger at her, I think, because he loves her. "If she gets punished, then she'll know I don't like it without me having to say it."

Corey Allan:
Okay.

Laura Dabney:
So that's where I think that that vicious circle comes from is if you are conscious and okay with all your feelings, you can pick the best as opposed to the punitive option that's going to end up hurting more than it helps.

Corey Allan:
Absolutely. So from what I'm hearing you describe, we're on the same page of the next step is, "I got to handle me. I got to be upfront about, 'Look, this is the dynamic.' I like the framework of every marriage, especially every sexual relationship, has an elephant in the room if not multiple elephants of tension, frustration, past hurt, uncertainty, fear, whatever it might be. So how do I recognize I can't make that elephant move out, but I can shrink him by acknowledging him a little different?" I'll personalize it. Just because I might share a perverted idea I've got with Pam, that's a bell I can't unring if I'm open about that, but it also probably is not ever going to make it. She's totally enthusiastic about my perversion. It's just that's just the reality of the difference between us then.

Laura Dabney:
Right. It's no different than saying, "Hey, I want to go to the mall for three hours." The way you put it, you put it on I statements. Right?

Corey Allan:
Yes.

Laura Dabney:
So you owned the whole thing. This is my other fear with this guy. I'm afraid when he brings it up, he's putting it all on you, you need to, you don't-

Corey Allan:
Fair.

Laura Dabney:
... as opposed to the, "Hey, I need to let you know. I'm feeling really frustrated, irritated about our sex life, and I'm fantasizing about using porn so we need to resolve this. I need your help figuring this out."

Corey Allan:
Right. "At the very least, I got to put this out in the open because that's the route I have not gone."

Laura Dabney:
Yes. In the open in a way where you own it all.

Corey Allan:
Right. I like that. I think that's good. I think this dovetails straight into the next email, which now we're going to come at it from a female perspective because it's a wife emailing in. Again, we've got a little bit of the dilemma that married life faces because I don't know if it's designed for these kinds of things, but maybe it is, there's an element of we're going to have gridlock and impasses that happen.

Laura Dabney:
So we'll grow as a person. We'll grow from that.

Corey Allan:
That's the hope. Yes. Because that's the mantra of what's my marriage teaching me right now? Because I think that's a good question to ask. So this is from a wife that says, "Hey, can you help me? I've been married to my husband going on 14 years. We've both been married before. He has three kids, I have two from prior relationships. Our sex life was good during the beginning. However, he had to take medication like Viagra." So in 2011, they got custody of a grandson and this was a struggle because it as years passed, sex life stopped.

Corey Allan:
"Every once in a blue moon, we would have sex. I'm talking like twice a year. He had stopped taking the Viagra due to us not having insurance. So fast forward now to 2018, grandson went to live with father, but nothing's changed. I love my husband with all my heart. He's my everything. As a note, I'm eight years younger than him. So last year in 2018 towards the end of the year, I couldn't take it anymore. I woke up wanting sex, went to bed wanting sex, masturbated at least twice a day. At the beginning, it was a relief like, 'Wow.' And then, it was like boring. I wanted more. I wanted the connection, the passion, the suspension of what was going to happen next so I went to a dark place. I was angry all the time."

Corey Allan:
She even posted a song on Facebook that he found on her site and contacted her and said, "What's this all about?" Later that day, she broke down, told him she couldn't do it anymore, told him I want him, all of him. "As we let it all out about how often I wanted sex and to me even masturbating." She just totally came clean, it sounded like, Laura. "So I know he loves me, and I know I love him. It was rough, but we're trying to work this out. The love is there. The connection's there. The passion's there." He went back to the doctor to get put on Viagra. So all should be good, right? Wrong.

Corey Allan:
"Medication isn't working at all. I bought some cream that's supposed to help with blood circulation, but that didn't work. So now I'm at a loss. So I was like, 'Toys. Why not?' Because I know he wants to have sex, but he can't just get hard. What can I do? What else can we do or can he do? Please help." All right.

Laura Dabney:
Lot of similarities here. Right?

Corey Allan:
It is. In some regards, she's taking charge of what she can and she's even bringing that forward. Maybe there's cleaner ways it could've been brought forward and so the question to me jumping out right off the bat is, is she still clean and bringing forward the passion and sharing the essence of that rather than punitive in it? Because I like that framework.

Laura Dabney:
Exactly. So it'd be very unusual, unless they're in therapy, that she went about it, held it for so long, and then the blew, and did the punitive thing, and now all of a sudden, she's open all the time. I mean, they luckily ended up, it sounded like, in a great place. But it sounds like maybe she doesn't realize, and I have a lot of patients who have this fantasy that if we're in love it should just be easy.

Corey Allan:
Yes. I think we all face that. Sex just unfolds all the time, whenever, easily. No problem.

Laura Dabney:
It's always great, and we're always on the same page. So she may be in that realm of... Women tend to fall for this more because of that whole the princess gets the prince and they live happily ever after. So she got the prince and now is she just thinking, "Well, that should now be happily ever after"? She's not daily checking in with herself, admitting things to herself, open and honest. It's almost like she wants a formula. We can't tell them what's the next step. That's what you work out together. That's the intimacy, right, working that out?

Corey Allan:
Absolutely. I'm glad you touched on it with that word because what I'm hearing from her, and this is my question is the love is, there, the connection is there, the passion is there. Okay. So if that's the foundation, that just means the sexual mechanics is not there.

Laura Dabney:
Exactly.

Corey Allan:
Because this is the question I've got, what says an erect penis is a necessity for sexual connection?

Laura Dabney:
Exactly.

Corey Allan:
Because there's a lot more you can do, and there's a lot more connection in bond you can have that has nothing to do with if there's an erection or not.

Laura Dabney:
Right. So here again is this idea that he's got the problem and I'm the victim suffering. You're not a victim here. You're an adult. You have the voice or the capacity to say, "We got to figure this out together. It would be fun to figure this out together. What are the options?" This isn't going to end with people. Men have differences in their sexual functioning. Women have different changes in the sexual functioning. People get sick. Things change all the time in your sex life. You have to be really, really comfortable talking about this frequently so it doesn't go off course like that.

Corey Allan:
And, I think have the courage to redefine self and relationship continually because there is this element of what I hear... I mean, this is the first thought that comes to my mind when I read this email when it first came in. Because these two have been in the queue for a little while, so I'm glad that you're on here to help me. Let's get caught up. Right?

Laura Dabney:
Yeah. Right.

Corey Allan:
But the one of the first thoughts that comes to my mind when I first came across this and then as thinking through it today is so she's found ways to take charge of what she can in some realm of her sexuality and her sex life. Has she invited him into that?

Corey Allan:
Has she said, "I am really horny, and I'm interested in a sexual connection or release. If I got a minimal goal, that's it. I want the sexual pleasure. I want that escape, whatever it might be, however I deem it and define it at that time. I would love to add some layers to it of your participation in it. Ultimately, the penultimate thing would be we have full-blown sexual intercourse. That's my hierarchy. Let's just frame it. So I'm going to be willing to start at the bottom if you're willing to come in the room with me. That's a different level of intimacy. If you're willing to participate, that's another different level of intimacy. Maybe that gets you going, that's another..." At least you're bringing yourself into the equation more, which is just like the whole thread we've been going on, if you're being upfront about it all.

Laura Dabney:
Right. Right. Exactly. And you're inviting him into your thoughts. People underestimate how intimate that is.

Corey Allan:
It's completely intimate.

Laura Dabney:
I mean, that's exactly why we have dating and everything. You start there and start bringing them in. "We have this in common. We both don't like that. Gee, whatever." It's all the thoughts first. So just bringing him into your thoughts is a huge first step.

Corey Allan:
That's good. And then if you move forward even more, she's bringing him into her experience.

Laura Dabney:
Right. I just want to make a note here about being a woman and understanding a little bit about... I work with most of you with men, but then I sometimes see their wives. But in any event, our society does have different pressures, expectations from women than they do men. Religion also play a role here from the other talk. So you have to be not only honest with how you're feeling, but what is this image you're carrying around that might not be yours? It's something borrowed from society that doesn't fit you, or isn't you, or isn't real that you may have to slough off before you can get to the intimacy you want so badly.

Corey Allan:
Right. That's part of the whole growth process too. That's taking stuff that I've been given and scaffolding onto it to where I start to build, "Hey, this is what I really believe." I can challenge. Let's go back to that word we used in the first segment. I could be curious about, is that working? Do I really believe that? Is that in line with who I am now as I see it now? And the more I can do that, the more I'm evolving into the full functioning me.

Laura Dabney:
Right.

Corey Allan:
Perfect.

Laura Dabney:
Right. To not let anybody else give you that definition. You can't live under someone else's definition, again, without the resentment and frustration.

Corey Allan:
Right.

Laura Dabney:
Not you.

Corey Allan:
Right. That's perfect. Well, Laura, again, I love your take on things. Thank you so much for helping steer some of the members of the SMR nation. How can they find more of you before we wrap up this part of the show?

Laura Dabney:
Good question. We just launched a new website, so I'm so excited. It's a D-R-L-D-A-B-N-E-Y.com, drldabney.com.

Corey Allan:
Perfect.

Laura Dabney:
Please call me. I love to talk to people. I actually have a special line set up for your listeners, Corey, and it's 757-695-3925.

Corey Allan:
All of that will be in the show notes. So if you're listening to this while driving, don't try to write that down. Both hands on the wheel. Come on. Safety first. Dr. Laura, thank you so much again for the time, and I look forward to connecting some more.

Laura Dabney:
Thank you, Dr. Cory. It's always great to chat with you and solve the world's problems together.

Corey Allan:
We can only hope. I love it when we can have a guest back on the show that starts to get a little more of a feel for what Sexy Marriage Radio is really about and a taste of the SMR nation when they email in and they get to jump in on, "Let's answer these things."

Pam Allan:
Right. Right. Someone that's got some great background and absolutely useful help and information for the nation.

Corey Allan:
Selfishly, I love it when other professionals get access to the SMR nation and they learn, and get to taste, and experience the depth and the quality of the SMR nation, of the questions they ask, and what they're interested in, and how things unfold for them because that's what we want to be here at SMR. We want to help married life be all that it can be. So when people constantly send us emails or call in voicemails and just help frame the conversation, ask the questions that aren't being asked, make us go deeper, steer it a different way, we all are better that way.

Pam Allan:
Yeah.

Corey Allan:
Right? So this has been Sexy Marriage Radio. Wherever you are, whatever you've been doing, thanks for the feedback you've given us to help with the things that go on in our world. We hope that what we do helps things go on in your world better. So if we left something undone, let us know. We'll see you next time.

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