On today’s regular version of the show …
An email from listeners asking for our take on the use of the “f” word in married life and sex.
A voicemail from a higher desire husband who takes too much of his cue from his lower desire wife when it comes to their sex life.
A follow up from a wife asking for more about her role in going forward with the subject of her husband’s porn use and his lying about it for the first 12 years of their marriage.
On the Xtended version …
An in-depth conversation about one-sided marriages.
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Transcript of Episode
Corey Allan: So we have dates. My fair wife Pam.
Pam Allan: Dates for what?
Corey Allan: Next year’s Sexy Marriage Radio getaway. Mark your calendars now.
Pam Allan: Nice.
Corey Allan: I need you to Mark your calendar now.
Pam Allan: Got it. Got it down.
Corey Allan: By the way. To June 18th through 21 in the year of 2020. Here in the Dallas–Fort Worth area. Again, so market calendars, the more details will be coming. We’ve got some changes coming for the getaway. At least so we’re in the works for some cool little additions.
Pam Allan: Are you disclosing right now?
Corey Allan: We are not disclosing yet. We’ve got to finalize all of the details and that will all be disclosed as soon as we have them all affirmed up.
Pam Allan: All right, looking forward to it.
Corey Allan: But if you want to join us and we hope that you do, we want to see in June in 2020. We’re the Sexy Marriage Radio and we’re so glad that you take some time out of the day each and every week to spend it with us and what we asked from you as our loyal, faithful, Sexy Marriage Radio Nation, that let us know what you think and what your questions are.
Corey Allan: If you’ve got something you’re curious and you don’t know where else to ask because you’re not going to bring it up at the dinner table whenever the holidays come around and ask your parents. Gets a little too embarrassing or your friends, church group, whatever, let us know. We’ll answer it. (214) 702-9565 is our voicemail line or email@example.com is how you can email us and everything is read and followed up with in some way, shape or form as a segment on a show or an offline conversation. We also asked the Sexy Marriage Radio Nation to jump on iTunes and rate and review the show. Leave us comments, help us spread the word that married sex is the best hotbed for sex that there is.
Pam Allan: That’s right?
Corey Allan: Come on up on today’s regular free version of Sexy Marriage Radio, a couple of your questions and our answers and then on the extended version which is deeper longer and there are no ads, you can firstname.lastname@example.org we’re going to do a deep dive conversation, Pam, into the whole world of one sided relationships.
Corey Allan: There’s been a thread of emails that have come in over the last couple of weeks and then from several of the conversations that have taken place in the Academy that have really started to frame out, you know what? I’m in to one sided relationship and certain aspects of my marriage. So what do I do? We’re going to talk into about what is it? And then we’re going to talk into some specific actionable, what I think. Because there is this whole, you go out there and Google one sided relationship, which I did and you see a lot of different advice, which none of it is necessarily wrong in my opinion. It’s just not enough.
Pam Allan: Sure.
Corey Allan: And so all that’s coming up on today’s show. This is an email that came in a just in the last couple of weeks. Pamela that just says, I love the way they’re coming about this question.
Pam Allan: Okay.
Corey Allan: That says, “Hello Sexy Marriage. Thank you for the podcast with open discussion and not shying away from hard questions. We wanted to ask your thoughts about using the F word in the bedroom.” And I’m guessing they don’t mean fun.
Pam Allan: I’m guessing.
Corey Allan: Or funny.
Pam Allan: Yeah. My wife and I are both very strong believers who both enjoy sex and sometimes the sex is good and the F word has been a way to ask for what we really want when it gets wild. We never use this word anywhere else and it’s only between the two of us. We’ve talked about it and I’ve come to the conclusion that we use it in the context, in a safe place and not all the time making it okay for us to use when we feel the desire to be explicit and express what either of us would like. We’re interested in your thoughts. Thanks for your time.
Pam Allan: That’s funny. There’s that conversation has gone on in I’m guessing in a lot of different households.
Corey Allan: Yes it has. I bet it has.
Pam Allan: That word is like none other, right? To describe what you may want between the two of you in the bedroom.
Corey Allan: If you’re talking about-
Pam Allan: I’m not going to start flipping it out there.
Corey Allan: No, but if you’re talking about like even in the movie, The Christmas Story, it’s the mother of all curse words. That’s the way it’s referred to by Ralphie. And it’s seeing it as it has such… it’s such a volatile word, but it also is an incredibly descriptive one.
Pam Allan: Yeah.
Corey Allan: And so this is where we have landed. This is a Pam and Corey Allen for a second. We have landed in the arena of trying to talk to our children and demonstrate in the way we talk to each other. Words are just words. The meanings of them are what matter. Because you can be disrespectful to [inaudible 00:05:22] and harmful without even coming close to using curse words.
Pam Allan: That’s right.
Corey Allan: Right? It comes down to what is the intent, what is the meaning, what is the message you’re delivering? Because when I think through some of the clients I’ve worked with, they can tear each other up without cussing at each other.
Pam Allan: Oh yeah.
Corey Allan: Right. It could come across with all polite looking words, but man, the meaning of them is not. It really comes down to what’s the message you’re trying to deliver. And sometimes when you’re talking about the F word, my belief, and Pam, you’re kind of confirming this is, there’s no other that matches it on the clarity of what’s going on when things are wild.
Pam Allan: Yeah. And what you’re looking for. Because there’s a flavor to it that just means something so specific and exquisite. But it has another side to it that people are like, “Ah.” They’re just turned off by that word.
Corey Allan: Right. But if I want that from you, all right, game on.
Corey Allan: You better believe game on. But it’s seeing it as… when you’re talking about what is it that works between you and your spouse, this really is a question of what are the two values that you’ve got in that system. How do you push the envelope a little bit with each other, if one of you really sees no issue and the other’s like, “Yeah, I don’t like it.” We’ve had that coming too of, I want to be more of the dirty talk or closer to that free flowing verbiage and my wife or my husband doesn’t like it. So you’ve got to take some cues on what’s their response to it too. Because if you’re using something in the meaning you intended is not landing and it actually is a turnoff, is it as beneficial to keep pounding your head against wall?
Pam Allan: Right. For this couple, it sounds like this is an accelerator.
Corey Allan: Right.
Pam Allan: And it’s really been succinct on what it is I’m looking for tonight.
Corey Allan: Right. I think good on you guys for how do I be more expressive and more engaged in a dynamic between my husband or my wife and I. And how do I express that? Because I’m going to venture the guess that most of the Sexy Marriage Radio Nation, whether they use this word or not, they want to experience with their spouse.
Pam Allan: Yeah, yeah. I would agree.
Corey Allan: If that’s what I’m looking for, sometimes the best way I can get it is lead my lead with my language there.
Caller: Hey guys, I have a question for you. So I am the high desire partner in my relationship. My wife is the low desire partner. The problem is though that I have a really hard time initiating sex because my wife is rarely in the mood to have sex, but she knows it’s important to me. So she’s often very giving. However, because she’s rarely in the mood when she initiate sex, I know that she’s at least okay with having sex at the time. Also it feels like she’s giving to me from a place of love and wanting to make me happy. But I am a little bit scared to initiate sex because the two reasons. One, I don’t know if she’s okay with it at that time, if she’s in the mood or if she’s totally against it. Two, she’s the type of person who will just go along with it. If I were to initiate even if she didn’t want to.
It makes me feel like, if I were to initiate it and she wasn’t in the mood, but she just went along with it. She’s giving from a place of kind of obligation or duty, it kind of feels like charity at that point. I don’t want to force it on her if she’s not in the mood. Even if she was in the mood, 99% of the time, that 1% is still enough to deter me. We’ve talked about it, but normally pretty good at resolving our issues, but this one’s kind of stumped us and we’re not sure how to fix it. We both agree that it’s not fair that she should have to be the primary initiator as [inaudible 00:09:44] partners. Do you guys have any advice or any wisdom you could share with me? Really appreciate it. Love what you guys are doing. Thank you so much for your service.
Corey Allan: Thanks for calling in. And this is a great example, I think of what can be an undercurrent of a lot of the messages we get via email, via phone call, et cetera. Because there’s this dynamic of what we want is kind of what we talked about in the prior segment. We want a free flowing, both sides are after it for themselves and each other. But a lot of times married sex does not fall in that category. It falls in one person has more of a drive than the other, and the others are willing participant, but they’re more for the other person rather than themselves. Right?
Pam Allan: Right, right. I think that’s exactly right. And I think, he sounds very tentative.
Corey Allan: Yeah. He is very tentative. That’s what he’s describing as if, even with just that 1% chance when she’s not interested, it makes him pull back even more of, I don’t even want to initiate it.
Pam Allan: Yeah. Just from a female perspective, I guess I’d throw out the 2 cents from a woman. I’m going to be less turned on. If you’re tentative. I’m going to be more turned on and have a higher chance of jumping into it if you’re coming at me boldly.
Corey Allan: Okay. I get that.
Pam Allan: That’s just food for thought on the days where you feel like you’re courageous and can be bold.
Corey Allan: Yeah. I want to come at this a little… There’s two things that come to my mind in the first way I want to go out. This is just straight man to man. You’re kind of teeing it up a little bit, Pam. With this idea that you’re allowing your wife to dictate all of the terms as you as the higher desire. She sets the entire framework in the way you have it set up right now. That everything is contingent on her response to you. That if she doesn’t respond well, that diminishes what you want or what you’re after or your desire. I’m going to call bull on that. Because I’m going to guess it’s a deeper desire than that. He’s just afraid to express it. Because there is a chance she would say no, even though it doesn’t sound like that happens a whole lot.
Pam Allan: Doesn’t sound like.
Corey Allan: There’s still this option that she could. And so in some regards, the way you are coming at this, you are orbiting your wife too much. You’re giving her entirely too much power and you’re not trusting her to handle herself. You’re trying to handle her too. Right?
Pam Allan: Yeah.
Corey Allan: You’ve got to let the brains loose and hand them back to her and let her, if she wants to say no to something, it’s her job. If she’s into something, her job, if she’s going along with something, her choice. Right? So if later on, and maybe this has happened in your marriage and this is what’s kind of created the cycle that there’s something that’s happened and then you’re talking about it later and she’s like, “Yeah, I really didn’t want to.” There’s a little undercurrent of, “Yeah, I just had to, because of you.” There’s an undercurrent of negativity attached to it, which then can make a higher desire to go, “I don’t want to be a part of that.” You got to at least be able to confront that a little better to say that was on you to have spoken up sooner then.
Pam Allan: Understood. It sounds like obviously they have had communication about this and shared back and forth, and I got to say, I appreciate the awareness, right?
Corey Allan: Yes.
Pam Allan: Because you don’t want to create a scenario where I’m just oblivious to my spouse’s thoughts that are going on in their head that aren’t being vocalized. Right? I don’t want to create a scenario where there’s resentment because she feels like she’s always saying no or she’s giving in to something that she doesn’t want to do. But then again as two adults coming into this, we do each have to speak up for ourselves in that scenario. There is a line between recognizing what’s going on with your spouse, being aware of it. Not just being aware but caring about what might be going on with them.
Corey Allan: Absolutely.
Pam Allan: But also respecting them as an adult to speak up for themselves in a good way.
Corey Allan: And treat them as such. Treat them as the respect based towards another adult.
Pam Allan: Right.
Corey Allan: This is about each of us, because that’s what he’s saying, they both in essence are looking for, is how do we find this free flowing. He is more likely and he will most often let himself go, it sounds like. And in the times where she initiates it, because she knows she’s into it, right? That’s what he’s looking for. You have to start recognizing, even when it’s just you initiating it, as the higher desire husband here, if she goes along with it, she’s into it. She says, yes.
Pam Allan: Yeah.
Corey Allan: She may not have the full on energy, but she’s engaged. She’s there, she’s into it. If it’s still something that’s lower than what you’re looking for, then that’s on you to speak up and say, “I want something different than this. That’s the dynamic of how sex unfolds, is the language.
Pam Allan: Is it safe to say that there’s a desire here for anxiety free sex?
Corey Allan: Yeah. Yes. Because the responsiveness that they’re looking for from each other, that’s the cog for anxiety in a sense.
Pam Allan: Right. And these situations aren’t anxiety free.
Corey Allan: No.
Pam Allan: There could be rejection. Something goofy could happen. I don’t know what’s really going on between their ears up there and are they into it?
Corey Allan: Right. This whole scenario is based on, this is the second point that jumps out is, all the initiation dynamic is based on response cycle. That if I’m wanting something and I’m trying to read the situation of am I going to get a good response to determine if I go for it or not? I set up this whole dilemma that takes all the power out of my control. And it puts power on someone else’s shoulders that they probably don’t want any way because it’s not theirs. It’s not their responsibility. Right. How do I see this as my job is to live more solidly as my role in the situation. If this was a husband and wife in my office, this would be… I would probably lead with something along the lines of after having had a conversation with both of them, I would lead with something along the lines of, “Okay, so you want more sex with her, but she gets to dictate the terms of how it all happens?” “Yes.”
Corey Allan: I’d probably get a confirmation from both, I’m like, “Okay.” In essence, every so often you want your penis back from her so that you can attach it to your own body and have some fun and then when you’re done you’ll let her have it back because she gets to dictate all the terms. Right?
Pam Allan: Right.
Corey Allan: There is an element, and this is a snash phrase, of we have a lot of times where men are walking around this world without their penis securely attached to their body. And when that plays out in sex, it sets up the scenario you lead with Pam of it doesn’t allow for a lot of confidence. If I don’t have it securely attached. And it’s also something she doesn’t want to have hanging out in her purse in the long run.
Pam Allan: No.
Corey Allan: Because that’s just an appendage that, why would you want that? If it fall out at a grocery store that’d be very embarrassing.
Pam Allan: Yeah. She’s got her own stuff to take care of.
Corey Allan: Exactly.
Pam Allan: We all do.
Corey Allan: It’s seeing this dynamic as you’re feeding off each other too much. So how do you start to recognize. My job is to handle my side better and treat my spouse in a manner in which they handle themselves better. And then I deal with the responses to that as they unfold. Because you’re already capable of it. That’s what they’re describing. Well done. You’ve already laid the groundwork. Now it’s both of you taking that little bit of a next step, which is a risk of, “Okay, I’m going to be a little more bold. I’m going to be a little more forthcoming. I’m going to announce an intention, however it plays out, I’m going to start letting my confidence lead the way rather than my questions.”
Corey Allan: All right, so here’s another email that came in that I believe is worth following up briefly. This is from episode 424 where the caller, she called in about, how could she trust her husband with porn.
Pam Allan: Okay.
Corey Allan: And his history with it because he lied to her through the entirety of their marriage. It was prior to the marriage and he said it wasn’t an issue. No problem. No problem. Then 12 years in he comes clean and says-
Pam Allan: Yeah. It’s a problem.
Corey Allan: … it is and it has been. We kind of called her to task on what was her part that she plays in the dynamic because porn has nothing to do with her. But the way she responded could have set up a scenario of, well, she doesn’t handle bad news well. Correct. Her question is, “Do I really play a part in my husband’s lie if he lied to me before we were married.” Meaning he lied from the get go. I get that you take me to task and having me look at my part and yes, I did play a part by reacting partially. I guess I don’t know who wouldn’t cry after being lied to for 12 years. But in response to Pam, something you said, I still have the right to ask him if he’s acting out. I still have the right to question on accountability measures.
Corey Allan: And do I ask and just don’t believe what I hear because he’s lied for the 12 years. So how do I believe him? I’ve told him I’d rather hear an ugly truth over a pretty lie. If you’re still struggling or you’re acting out or just slip, just tell me. But nothing has happened in the last year. So I don’t know how to believe that he doesn’t have… that he’s following through because he doesn’t have true accountability. He set up Covenant Eyes, but his accountability partner for Covenant Eyes is their old counselor. But it’s just the reports. There’s no conversations, there’s no checking in and they no longer Skype with their old counselor. Even whether the reports are good. It doesn’t mean anything’s good. I’m just so confused. I know we need to make another appointment to come see me. I don’t know if I’m married to somebody who just continues to lie or if it was just those touchy subject that he loves about it, that he doesn’t want to talk because there’s so much shame and there’s so much guilt that he still has and he doesn’t want to talk about it.
Corey Allan: She really feels stuck.
Pam Allan: Sure.
Corey Allan: She’s overwhelmed and frustrated.
Pam Allan: Sure. Totally, totally. When you’re on that end of it. Absolutely. Yeah. You can cry. Yeah, you’re not going to trust him right away. I would say the Covenant Eyes thing, that’s all well and good, but there’s always ways around those monitoring systems. That’s not something that I would necessarily rely on, but it is an avenue for open up a conversation.
Corey Allan: Right.
Pam Allan: Right? I’m sorry, I think I cut you off on what you were about to say.
Corey Allan: No, no, you’re good. Because I wanted to hear the female perspective from this. Because this has been our journey over the 26 years. We’ve had some seasons that were really down because of this, this struggle and this dilemma that was there long before you. And how this has played out there. It’s a tough road.
Corey Allan: It’s a long one. I would say that true forgiveness and I think a cleansing in my heart just to try and give her some hope. Maybe the length of time here isn’t hope for her, but I want to say it was about 12 years before I really got to a point where I said, okay I can finally let this go.
Pam Allan: Okay.
Corey Allan: Okay. And because it was every day I would come home and I would think if my spouse doesn’t know that I’m supposed to be home, am I going to walk in on something? But that was me in my brain.
Corey Allan: Hold on, because I want to at least stop for a second and think that kind of a thought process, is that necessarily untrusting or is it just preparatory of, I don’t know what I’m walking into. Because I think there’s a line. That sometimes that can be a human preparatory thing of, “I’m going to brace myself because I don’t know what I’m walking into.” And that could be self preservation. That can be a willingness to I want to handle this well if there is good information. Because that’s kind of what she’s saying is, she’s saying I want the bad news if it’s there and when she doesn’t get any bad news. She thinks well, it’s got to still be there.
Pam Allan: It’s got to be a lie. Right. That makes total sense. That maybe it is preparatory but it’s still in my mind says, “I don’t fully trust.”
Corey Allan: Okay. And the reason I want to go there is because I think human nature is, even when you… in the Sexy Marriage Radio Nation, if you are a couple that has not had any kind of an issue with this of a trail or any kind of thing like this where it’s happened in your life, there’s still an element of, well, this happened with us years ago, one of the end of the year seasons where there was a whole lot to have to be done and after a Christmas party you went back up to the office and you were there till like three or four in the morning.
Pam Allan: Yeah.
Corey Allan: Finishing up some corporate stuff for the year that needed to be done. You were like, “I should be home around 1:00 or 2:00. I wake up at 2:30 you’re not home, and my immediate thought is, “What’s going on?”
Pam Allan: Sure.
Corey Allan: Right. Just because we fill in with worst case scenarios immediately, as human beings.
Pam Allan: Yeah. It happens.
Corey Allan: Even if it’s not warranted at all. There’s still that thought and then I’ve got to calm myself down, which this is her plate. I’ve got to call myself down and see it as, “Okay, I have to just confront what’s going on on my side and within my system as clean as I can. I can’t keep harboring over, I need more information from you.”
Pam Allan: Right.
Corey Allan: Okay.
Pam Allan: Do you have anything else that you wanted to add?
Corey Allan: Well, I think the key here is them. Yes. Go see someone together. Because what helps her move on is to build trust, you see the other person being credible and breaking that chain of what is perceived as lying, right?
Pam Allan: Right.
Corey Allan: There’s got to be a deeper connection there where it is an open line. You feel comfortable and hopefully he’s receptive, but she can’t make him that way. But that just takes deeper work between the two of them.
Corey Allan: It does, but it also takes individual work within you.
Pam Allan: Okay.
Corey Allan: And so kudos to you ma’am for reaching out and coming back with, “Hold on, I get that you’re calling me out on my side, but how do I still see it? And so I wanted to come at you again.” Because this is out of love and respect. What I’m hearing, and you just touched on this Pam, what I’m hearing from you is, she wants her husband to show up fully in the marriage, right?
Pam Allan: Yeah. Who wouldn’t?
Corey Allan: Because that’s what this whole facade that changed when he came clean, he finally has said, I have not shown up fully in this relationship and now he’s got guilt and shame that’s he’s been dealing with all the way through with this. Not because of her, but because of the struggle. It’s the way it’s been framed to us. Means he can’t show up fully because he’s got guilt and shame. He’s not even letting that be seen. Right? There’s this element of, what I’m hearing her say is I want my husband to show up fully. My question is, ma’am, are you showing up fully?
Pam Allan: Oh, okay.
Corey Allan: Because if you’re not, you can’t expect someone to lead a place you’re not willing to go or already going yourself. There is an element of how are you leaning on your own integrity? How are you living within yours, that truly does give him the weight and the pressure and the power of our marriage that is truly alive, that is truly all in, that is truly vulnerable and real and out in the open and raw. One of the questions to help you on this path, and this is the simpler way to start to get to this deeper avenue. Is start asking yourself, how well am I following through on my other areas of life too, as far as showing up well. How well am I just living according to my integrity? Do I say things best intention, but not follow through even in small subtle ways. Because that’s modeling. It’s okay to keep some things hidden to not follow through, to not be completely visible.
Corey Allan: When you shore that up, you use the pressure in a marriage tremendously better. It doesn’t solve it completely, but it puts the weight where it needs to be, that if he’s still shuts down because he has all kinds of guilt and shame and he doesn’t want to talk about it, that’s his issue still then. You’re the collateral damage still, seek the help you need. Get thee in my office as fast as you can.
Pam Allan: Right.
Corey Allan: Let’s end this where we started, June 18th through the 21st. Mark your calendars now.
Pam Allan: Sexy Marriage Radio getaway.
Corey Allan: That’s the getaways coming. There’s going to be some cool things happening if all thing goes to plan. We want to see you, we want to meet you there. There’ll be more details coming in the future. So I won’t spend a whole lot of time on this now. But this has been Sexy Marriage Radio. If we left something undone since we covered quite a bit today, let us know what you think, what questions you’ve got, where we missed it. We don’t want this relationship to be one side.
Pam Allan: No, we don’t.
Corey Allan: We want both the Nation and us to be better. So (214) 702-9565 or email@example.com is how you can let us know. Wherever you are, whatever you’ve been doing. Thanks for taking some time out of your day to spend it with us. See you next time.