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hosted by Dr. Corey Allan

The Female Orgasm #454

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On the Regular version of today’s show …

A conversation with Vanessa Marin, a fellow sex therapist, about the most common issues couples face in their sex lives today. You can find more about Vanessa on her site https://vmtherapy.com/

On the Xtended version …

Vanessa and I continue the conversation about sex, only this time we’re focusing solely on the female orgasm.

Enjoy the show!

Got a question?

CALL US 214-702-9565
or email us at feedback@sexymarriageradio.com

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Get help for your relationship and sex life from the comfort of your own home. This is an opportunity for YOU to fully experience the fact that “The BEST SEX can happen IN the Marriage Bed!” ...

Corey Allan:
It's Valentine's week here at Sexy Marriage Radio empire.

Pam Allan:
Yeah, happy Valentine's. I'd love to hear what people are doing for their Valentine evenings.

Corey Allan:
I'm sure because we have the sexiest audience on the face of the planet. I'm sure whatever they're doing, it's well done, over the top, fabulous, no holds barred, spare no expense.

Pam Allan:
And then we got all the guys out there thinking, listening to this going, dude, I don't know what I'm doing yet. And the ladies.

Corey Allan:
I picked up a box of chocolates.

Pam Allan:
Send emails with ideas of what you're doing. We'll share him somehow.

Corey Allan:
Absolutely. The Sexy Marriage Radio Nation does want to help each other in a lot of ways, and the way we go about doing that, one of the ways is you email and you call into the show. You can call us at (214) 702-9565 you can also send us an email with feedback, sexymarriageradio.com. Like this one that just came in and it just says guys, seriously, labels for female genitalia, you can't come up with any more fun names than lips? What about lady bits, as in want to show me your lady bits or down under parts? Want to go for a dive down under? I like that one.

Pam Allan:
I do too.

Corey Allan:
It's good. Or juicy Lucy, I hadn't heard this one before. Let's see how juicy your little Lucy is.

Pam Allan:
She is way more fun than us with that. I'm so not creative on that stuff.

Corey Allan:
And that's part of the fun of this is because-

Pam Allan:
And what she said, fun vanilla lady.

Corey Allan:
A fun vanilla lady. Absolutely.

Pam Allan:
That's a fun vanilla lady.

Corey Allan:
But it's the whole range when it comes to how people do sex and what works for them and like the fun vanilla lady is describing, have a little flair if that's part of who you are. Right. And if it's not, see if it stretches just a little bit to make that part of who you are because that's the whole concept that we believe of how sex helps us just grow up. It challenges us, it stretches us. We have to take risks sometimes and so sometimes it's how do you label the things? So fun vanilla lady, thank you for adding to the conversation for what do you call down there for a woman? And also since this is a collaborative in the way this goes, with Sexy Marriage Radio Nation, we want to have you come see us at the Sexy Marriage Radio getaway. It's a personal invitation. It's Valentine's week. Take your spouse to the getaway in June. Registration's going on now, spots are selling fast-

Pam Allan:
Getting excited.

Corey Allan:
And we want to see you there because it's going to be a fabulous four days in June, 18 through 21 this coming summer. So take advantage of the early bird rate before it goes away. April 15th, which also has a special appeal for my wife in that date with a nice tax accountant.

Pam Allan:
It does. I'm dreaming of sleeping in on the 16th.

Corey Allan:
We're coming up on today's regular free version of Sexy Marriage Radio. I had a chance to catch up with Vanessa Marin, who's a sex therapist on the West Coast, that she has some fabulous resources that we came across and just the way she frames the work that she does with people and their sex lives. I reached out to her and said we've got to have a conversation because oftentimes, my wife Pam is my lovely cohost throughout all of this, but sex therapy is not her wheelhouse. She brings the voice of the everyday woman or the low desire wife or just my wife. So it's a whole range.

Pam Allan:
It can be classified in all kinds of ways, right?

Corey Allan:
Where she tries to fill in the conversations. And so Vanessa and I spend the regular version of this episode talking about what are some of the most common issues that come up in sex. Because I was really curious from a female perspective, what is she seeing, what are the trends, what are the things happening? And then on the extended version of Sexy Marriage Radio, which is deeper, longer, and there's no ads, you can subscribe at smrnation.com. Vanessa and I continue a more in depth conversation about the allure and the subtlety and sometimes even the struggle with the female orgasm. Because she has a course and I love the title, it's called Finishing School.

Pam Allan:
Nicely done.

Corey Allan:
And it's for helping women achieve orgasm. And the whole adage of well, you just got to relax is not helpful. And so we talked through what do you do, how do you you start this whole process in today's extended version? So all that's coming up on today's show. So joining me today for this episode of Sexy Marriage Radio is a fellow sex therapist who happens to be of the other gender. And any time I come across women that have a lot going for them in regards to their profession, their take, their view and they're female. I want to get with them to, hey, let's talk about the whole world of sex therapy and how it applies to couples. Because Vanessa as you and I were talking right before the show started, I can't carry the weight because I've never been a woman and so there's a different view and lens. And so Vanessa Marin is joining us for today's. She's a psychotherapist out in the California area and I won't hold that against just since I live in Texas Vanessa, but welcome to the show.

Vanessa Marin:
Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to get to have this conversation with you.

Corey Allan:
Absolutely. So, I want to just dive right in because you do a lot of work just mainly, you've done a deep dive into the world of sex therapy with people and with couples. And so to start, what are some of the main things you see? Because I'm always curious about trends, commonalities, just what are some of the main things you see in the work that you're doing with couples right now?

Vanessa Marin:
Yeah, I think people are always interested in this question, right? We want to know what's going on in other bedrooms, what are other people struggling with?

Corey Allan:
Absolutely.

Vanessa Marin:
So yeah, I see three main issues in my practice. So the first one is women who struggle with orgasm and whether they've never had an orgasm or they can orgasm on their own but not with a partner. I see men with performance anxiety issues and I see couples with mismatch sex drives who are really struggling to keep the spark alive and feel connected in the bedroom.

Corey Allan:
Oh, so what's going on in California is the same thing going on here in the Midwest.

Vanessa Marin:
It sure is.

Corey Allan:
Well then now I know. Okay, perfect. So I want to, this is kind of a meandering conversation that I want to have with you Vanessa. And some of the ones like I want to table the idea of the women having trouble orgasming or having trouble reaching orgasm with their partner.

Vanessa Marin:
All right.

Corey Allan:
For the extended content, so that's our tease for the days show.

Vanessa Marin:
That's going to be a good one.

Corey Allan:
I can't wait. But I am curious because we've done just recently several different segments on the idea with men with performance anxiety. And so where do you go with this? Because I want to see where we align and where we're a little different possibly.

Vanessa Marin:
Yeah. Well, I take a really multifaceted approach to performance issues. So I think most men think, hey, my body's not performing the way I want it to, it's so easy these days to get Viagra, get Cialis. And I think most men think that that's the cure, I just need to get the pills. And so I work with so many men who come to me afterwards and they said, I got the pills, it didn't do anything and now I'm even more freaked out. So it's really important to me to help men recognize that performance issues are not just a purely biological thing.

Corey Allan:
Correct.

Vanessa Marin:
There are so many different factors that can go into it. And so if we can really dig in and explore what exactly is it that's actually going on, rather than putting on this bandaid solution of just tossing you a pill, then we can get much more comprehensive and effective solutions going forward.

Corey Allan:
So do you have a different route? Because there is an issue of performance anxiety that can manifest itself in a lot of different ways, right? I mean you can have the ed issues, you can have the premature ejaculation issues, you can have the delayed ejaculation issues. There's so many different things that can happen. But do you come at it from, if it's not, obviously there's a biological possibility because I mean there is an element with blood flow that hey, that's got to be addressed. But there's also the emotion, the context, the anxiety, the mental game. And I'm assuming that's kind of where you probably then start to dig in.

Vanessa Marin:
Yeah. So I have a five foundation system that I like to use where I go over the five main categories of potential causes. So the first one is the physical. So there can be physical issues that are at play, injuries, illnesses, medications, all kinds of stuff. There's mental, what sort of thoughts are going through your head? What sort of expectations do you have of yourself? How do you think you're supposed to perform in the bedroom and show up? There's emotional. So sometimes there might be, you're dealing with shame or embarrassment around sex, just negative feelings about sex in general. All of us have to deal with that. There's relational. So what happens in your relationship? So all men are going to experience occasional performance issues, but if there's a really bad reaction from your partner, let's say your partner freaks out, they think you're not attracted to me anymore, our sex life is dead. That's going to create a lot of tension and make it more likely to go forward.

Vanessa Marin:
And so it's just, what is your sex life even look like with your partner? And then the fifth one is sensual. So that gets more into what kind of sex are you having? How are you approaching it? Are you taking a really rushed, anxious approach to it? What does sex look like when you're on your own masturbating? So that's can be a huge component. So yeah, if we go through those five foundations and we almost always find some major causes, really a couple of different course can come up.

Corey Allan:
Yeah, I can almost see that's a great little, I'm almost picturing it as you're creating this little, it's a diagram of circles and you're just working through each one and you're going to start to find major overlaps or times where one circle is much larger than the others because of the list. And then that's where you start, which I see that as members of the Sexy Marriage Radio Nation can do that just listening to this.

Vanessa Marin:
Yeah, absolutely.

Corey Allan:
That's a proactive, because I don't mean speaking as a man that's been sexually active with his wife for a long time now, you're spot on in that all of us face varying levels of issues, right? Where it doesn't always go as planned. And so-

Vanessa Marin:
Our bodies do not always do what we want them to do.

Corey Allan:
No, they don't. Especially as you get further along in life, and there's this element of, okay, I'm going to need a little assistance here in some way, shape, or form. So it's seeing this through the idea of, okay, there's multi-facets going on. There's a whole lot of possibilities, let's not rush to judgment, it's kind of what you're saying. I'm broken because I would want to challenge it as no, that just means you're normal. Welcome to being human.

Vanessa Marin:
Yeah, absolutely.

Corey Allan:
That things don't always work the way you hope.

Vanessa Marin:
Yeah. I think that's such an important thing that most men don't realize. All men experience performance issues from time to time. I just said, our bodies don't always do what we want them to do, our bodies aren't robots. And so if a man can recognize, okay, this happens from time to time, I roll with the punches, you're going to be fine. But what often happens is that, hook it up into his head thinking, I am broken, something's horribly wrong and that just makes it worse and worse. So I think if we can just approach it, for men and women approach our sex lives with a sense of curiosity, like, okay, things aren't going exactly the way that I want them to be right now, but can I get curious and see what might be going on? And so yeah, you can go through those five foundations that I just listed on your own. And if you think through, all right, what might be going on for me in this area, you can really discover a lot.

Corey Allan:
Yeah, and I'm almost hearing this too, Vanessa, is that's a good route for a spouse, for a wife to go through because you even mentioned relationally she can take his issue personal when it could be a small percentage of the dynamic, but it's probably not. Most performance issues that I've come across and experienced have nothing to do with my wife. It's my own head and weird little world going on.

Vanessa Marin:
Yeah. I have never worked with a man where the main issue or even a major issue was his level of attraction to his partner. It's just not a thing. But unfortunately, so many women take performance issues really personally. And I've done that myself too. It is very easy to take it personally, but it's just so important for us to recognize that it's not. And when we do take it personally, we're just contributing to the issue and making it much more likely to continue happening.

Corey Allan:
Right. Well, that's when the power of what you're describing of how do we take a curiosity approach? How do we do a, hey, I wonder what? Because it seems like we could do that, tell me if I'm wrong and I don't think this is a male centric thing only. But we have a time as humans that when something goes wrong or different, don't we often tend to jump to the worst case, right?

Vanessa Marin:
Yeah, we definitely do.

Corey Allan:
Oh, okay, he's this or that, or she's this or that. Rather than, hold on, what else could it be?

Vanessa Marin:
And especially with sex, because it is such a sensitive topic, we don't have a lot of resources. A lot of us really struggle with it. So when something goes wrong in our sex life, yeah, we do tend to go to the absolute worst case scenario.

Corey Allan:
And so I want to pivot just real quick because you also make comments on how, just with some of the work you do, some of the stuff that you've written, how do you just keep, I think I'm stumbling around trying to think of how to frame this the best. But there's an element of married life sex is different because it's the same person, right? And so you run into this issue of how do we keep it exciting? How do we keep it engaging? How do we keep it, have a spark, right?

Vanessa Marin:
Yeah, absolutely. So I think the main, the first thing that I want to talk about here is shifting our mindset around it. I think most of us believe that great sex is something that's just supposed to happen. Because that's really the only way we ever see it, right? In the movies, people just have this immediate, instantaneous, crazy chemistry and they live happily ever after with that chemistry. And so a lot of people go into relationships with those same expectations, should be amazing right off the bat and it should just continue to be amazing. And I've seen a lot of people who end up leaving relationships because that spark starts to fade and they think, oh, this person isn't the right person for me, it must not be a good fit. And so I really like to encourage people to recognize that great sex requires great effort. It's something that we have to work on throughout the course of our relationship.

Vanessa Marin:
So that's just a really big mindset shift to make, if we can recognize, okay, it's not something that's just going to happen, it's something that we make happen, then that opens up the door for a lot of possibilities.

Corey Allan:
I love it because I frame it in a very similar, just the terminology is different of, I just say sex in general, but for sure, great sex doesn't happen by accident. There has to be an element of intentionality, dedication, effort, energy, knowledge, curiosity. I mean there's a whole lot of things because that's the whole, we do come into this don't we? With the idea of, well it'll just happen, it'll just flow. It'll just be simple.

Vanessa Marin:
Natural, that's my favorite word.

Corey Allan:
I use the joke when I'm speaking, like I've had the winter and spring is the time where I go speak to a lot of moms groups in the churches nearby. And I actually did this and just the other day where I just made the comment and kind of goof on this tangent that I tend to do, with the idea that sex doesn't happen by accident, you don't just trip and fall and all of a sudden you're in your wife's vagina, right. Because if that's the case, one, what is she doing laying on the ground like that just waiting for you? I Mean no woman just does that. So just the idea of recognizing there are so many myths that just trip us up.

Vanessa Marin:
There really are.

Corey Allan:
And just challenge those things.

Vanessa Marin:
Yeah, I feel like half of my job is really just dispelling myths and telling people no, it doesn't actually work like that. That's just what you've seen in the movies or on TV, it's not really how it works. But yeah, it's just because we don't have any great resources that so many people are operating off of all of these myths and it's really damaging our sex lives.

Corey Allan:
Absolutely. And so once you get a little bit of the myth busted, and then you're talking about great sex comes from great effort. Are there some go-tos that couples can enhance and be sure they are doing, that help?

Vanessa Marin:
Yeah, so there are a ton of different things that you can do. One of my favorite things to talk about, and that might be a little bit controversial, is actually to schedule sex. So I think that a lot of people have this idea, you hear the phrase scheduling sex and it just sounds really depressing. Like oh man, our sex life is so bad now we have to schedule it the way that we schedule dentists appointments. And I actually used to feel the exact same way about scheduled sex, at the beginning of my career I thought it was one of the worst ideas I've ever heard of.

Corey Allan:
What brought you around?

Vanessa Marin:
What actually brought me around was my husband and I having struggles in our own sex life. Of having a period of our relationship where we were both really busy, really stressed out, it felt like there just wasn't any time for us. And my husband stumbled upon the idea and said, you know what? We just need to schedule days and pick times where we make sure we're going to do this. And I hated it at first, I was so upset with him and I said, oh my God, I took it super personally my husband must not be attracted to me anymore, he has to schedule it with me. But we ended up just really playing around with it. And believe it or not, it actually ended up really working for us. And so we found different ways of playing with it where it's not this really clinical, okay, Tuesday at 7:13 PM we will meet in the bedroom. It's really become an amazing way for us of guaranteeing that we have time carved out for each other and that we build up this excitement and this energy and anticipation around it.

Vanessa Marin:
The same way, we have date nights where we go out and we go to a restaurant, we go to a concert, whatever it is that you feel excited about that, we feel excited about hey, we've got sexy date night with each other.

Corey Allan:
So I got a question though, because I'm in the same camp and I don't call the scheduling controversial and I take more of the stance of, I know for some couples it's going to work. For Pam and I it does not work. I mean it's because we're in some regards, it's that flip side of the equation where yes, it can really create the anticipatory energy, but it also creates the pressure of, oh I know it's coming. And so this is where I want to at least pick your brain because I think this is good information to know, how do you challenge that dynamic if that's within yourself? Because I know some listeners are going to hear that as oh, that's a pressure cooker, because they even look at date night that way of just knowing, oh I'm going to have to perform today and I really don't want to. And that's just that way that energy is being used against them rather than them using the energy.

Vanessa Marin:
Yeah. So I've got a solution for you.

Corey Allan:
I want to hear it let's go.

Vanessa Marin:
Yeah. So I dealt with this as well. In that period where we were trying to play around with this and see is this going to work for us or not, I felt some of that pressure. And there would be times where it was like, oh God, we have to tonight. So what I came up with is this idea, I call it the easy win activity. So what you do is you pick some activity that involves touch in any way that you would always feel open to. So no matter what, you have a terrible day, you're in a bad mood no matter what, you're always open to doing this with your partner. So for most couples, this is going to be something really simple. It might be cuddling, it might be a little kiss, it might be a hug, so it's something really, the bar is pretty low here.

Vanessa Marin:
So when you schedule a sexy date night, you are just agreeing to do that bare minimum activity with each other. So that really lessens the pressure because it's something that you do enjoy. You do look forward to, you know I don't have any expectation to go further than that. And what you'll find in reality doing this, is that if you set that bar really low for yourself, if you start off with something that you enjoy doing, you're getting some touch with your partner, the oxytocins flowing, a lot of times you wind up feeling open to doing more than that.

Corey Allan:
Right, because then you're just talking about how do I get past the first barrier?

Vanessa Marin:
It's really, yeah, it's that first step. So if it's something that, a lot of couples will tell me, I love cuddling with my partner, I will always cuddle with my partner. So if you just get over that first barrier, then you're cuddling, you're feeling good, you're thinking, okay, well, maybe a little bit more sounds good.

Corey Allan:
Okay. I like it because I think that's, again, this is just how, we here at Sexy Marriage Radio, it sounds like you have a very similar philosophy of what works for people is what matters, right? That there is not, I mean, if you and I, and I would love this if we could figure out a way to do this, but if you and I could create the end all be all, here's the three step process to have fantastic, great sex every single time, we would be the world's first trillionaires.

Vanessa Marin:
Yes.

Corey Allan:
Because everybody wants it. It just doesn't exist because there's too many nuances, too many unique situations and things that mean, okay, I'm going to have to try this out. And this is where we go back to what you mentioned earlier. How do I just be curious about my whole sexual evolving and my relationship and as a person?

Vanessa Marin:
Exactly. And so, yeah, so many of my approaches that I've come up with, it really comes back to that curiosity and that willingness to experiment. So I think a lot of us, we have this kind of perfectionism that's come up around sex. Like I don't want to try that thing unless I know I'm going to love it and it's going to be perfect. And so that's another big myth about sex, there's no such thing as perfect sex. So if we can take a different approach and think, I'm willing to experiment, I'm willing to try some things. Maybe I try this thing and I don't love it, maybe I try it and I do have it. So that kind of approach is really going to save your sex life and just make it so much more open, so much less pressure. And that just feels playful too, we don't take it quite so seriously.

Corey Allan:
Absolutely. I mean, sex is a serious subject, but man, we don't have to approach it so much like that.

Vanessa Marin:
We really don't. And a lot of times think about what's your favorite time, your favorite memories having sex with your partner. For most people it's not this super serious, very intense kind of thing. It's those moments where we feel really light and playful and we're laughing with each other and we're making eye contact and we just feel so connected to our partner. So that's the kind of sex that I really like to help people have.

Corey Allan:
That's good because the world needs more of that, especially in marriage because it does become this thing that has a different weight to it. Unless we can challenge a lot of these myths that they we're talking about.

Vanessa Marin:
Absolutely.

Corey Allan:
Well Vanessa, I got to let everybody know, how do they find you? Because I like what you've got going on.

Vanessa Marin:
Thank you.

Corey Allan:
A whole lot and I want other people to know it too. So what's the best way they can find more about you?

Vanessa Marin:
Yeah, so they can come on over to vmtherapy.com it's V-M my initials and T-H-E-R-A-P-Y.com and I would encourage everyone to sign up for our email list. So we send out an email every Friday with free tips, tricks, advice, resources. My husband is a part of my business as well. So sometimes we do from the male perspective, from the female perspective. So we have a great community of people and we'd love for you guys to join us there.

Corey Allan:
Well, that'll all be in the show notes, so be sure to check it out because I mean we all can use more curiosity and tips and tricks when it comes to making our life better in the long run. So Vanessa thanks again for spending a little time and I'm excited about where we're going next.

Vanessa Marin:
Yes, me too. Thanks for having me.

Corey Allan:
I love the fact that there are multiple voices out there that are aimed to help couples and individuals with their sex lives and how sex therapists play such a vital role.

Pam Allan:
Right, doing it in a healthy manner just quality people to go after and help you in a safe environment.

Corey Allan:
I love Vanessa and the fact that she's straightforward, it's practical, it's real, it's honest. And I'm hoping that if you caught all the episode well done, get to work, get to school. If you didn't catch the extended episode, what are you waiting for?

Pam Allan:
Well, I'd say ladies give yourself a Valentine's present and listen to this extended version, aiding an orgasm. She's got a unique perspective, right? And it's a female coming after it.

Corey Allan:
Absolutely. smrnation.com is how you can find out more. Well, this has been a fun show.

Pam Allan:
Yeah, it has.

Corey Allan:
So wherever you are, whatever you've been doing, we always like to say thank you to you for taking some time out of your day each and every week to spend it with us because Sexy Marriage Radio Nation truly is what makes this what it is.

Pam Allan:
It is.

Corey Allan:
That you help frame the conversation, you help us steer where we need to go. So if we left something undone or you want to hear a little bit more, feedback at sexymarriageradio.com or (214) 702-9565. See you next time.

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